Interesting bit of info

[caralampio]

I was reading a history book and found this interesting, little known data which illustrates about some of the eastern factions.

In 1240 Pope Gregory IX declared a crusade against Novgorod (Note: this is not a possible crusade target in the game). A Swedish army joined the crusade but was defeated by Alexander Nevski. Then the Livonian Germans (that would be the Teutonic Order in SS) joined the crusade and managed to take Pskov, but were eventually repulsed. However, later on Novgorod was made a vassal by the Mongols.

The other interesting bit is that when the Mongols came, the Cumans who governed southern Russia approached their traditional enemy Kiev for an alliance against the horde. Kiev understood the common threat and accepted. The Mongols proposed Kiev an alliance against Cumania which was not accepted, and the horde defeated the cumano-kievan army near the sea of Azov.

I think this is an argument against those who suggest that Cumania is a poorly defined faction and should be removed from the game.

[Santiago de Pola]

Interesting indeed..so you're proposing Novgorod(city) to have a crusade_target attribute?

[Staffen]

So, once upon a time the Cumans made an alliance with Kiev and their combined armies got curshed in a single battle.

How's that an argument in favour of keeping Cumans in the game?

If we want to be historically correct and include every faction that has ever fought alongside another faction in a major battle, we'd have to add dozens of new factions.

Any argument to either include or remove a faction, IMHO, should start along the lines of

'Faction X significantly adds to the gaming experience when both playing with and against them, because ....'

[Santiago de Pola]

'Faction X significantly adds to the gaming experience when both playing with and against them, because ....'

Ooooooh, you'll have a LOT of fun playing as Cumans early game, in the new 6.2 patch!

When the Mongols arrive that is..

[caralampio]

What I'm saying is that the Cumans are not a nebulous, semilegendary entity. They dominated southern Russia until the Mongols arrived, and raided all the way to Romania and Bulgaria. In fact some of their legacy is still there- For instance, Nadia Comaneci the famous Romanian athlete, her last name is derived from Cuman.

I know not every nation that existed can be represented in the game, but I think Cumania is more important, and provides more variety, than some alternatives that have been proposed, of minor Russian principalities. However as I have said before the Cuman faction needs some real work. Including, fixing that mysterious bug that causes crashes during the Cumans' AI turn...

[Sargon_of_Akkad]

The more pagan factions, the better, IMO...

[Gogolometro]

Cumans ruled the lands of my country.Are dinastys of cumans voievods here in 1200-1400.Hungary have it problems with them, i remmember 1330 a date of kicking hungarians and their king by a valachian army ruled by a cuman voievod.In fact a historian here said all medieval ages the cuman dinatys ruled valachia.In my opinion cumans must have the province of valachia under their rule but is a problem, their army was musch more similar to poland, hungary byzantine rooster than actual cuman rooster.