The founding of ISRAEL. : Origins of todays conflict
As we know there is a current offensive in the Gaza Strip by Israel in under the pretext of self defence. Each side blames the other for starting it, each going back to the origins.
There's a thread on the Hamas charter and on why we can't trust Hamas due to exterior motives, I thought I'd one on Israel and their founding fathers, the leaders of the revolution and the perpetrators of the Zionist colonisation. I always thought the Palestinian claim that Israel is operating as a rabid Zionist entity hell bent on taking all of Palestine and other biblical holy land, were a little bit far fetched to be honest, but now I wonder.
I thought I'd bear a little light on the founding of Israel, all told form the point of view of the founding father of Israel. The one the only. David Ben Gurion, also First Prime Minister of Israel.
What is it that the Jews wanted when they took Palestine? How? Why? and to what result?
Ah, yes. The holocaust. Fanatics say the darnedest things. So I see the state of Israel is naught a refuge of the Jews, but rather a vehicle for the phenomenon that is Zionism to gain ground in their obscene aim. There's a saying we have over here "Who needs enemies, with friends like these". Good thing Ben-Gurion never had to make that choice."If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel." Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" David Ben-Gurion: Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.Here Ben-Gurion clearly shows his view on who he thinks really owns the land of Palestine before 1948. His verdict is the Arabs own it, as they inhabit it compared to the Jews meagre 7% of land ownership. He has no shame in admitting the Jews took it, stole it and will do more."Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. ... Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice." -- David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
But it's all OK though, because....
But what do you want Mr. Ben-Gurion?Ben Gurion warned in 1948: Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget."Ah, I see. How though?"It's not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion." --Ben Gurion
Interesting. Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982 in order to help establish the Christian state, by helping the Christian fascist party resulting in the death of tens of thousands of people, a genocidal campaign, and the birth of Israel's worst enemy and most successful rival Hezbollah."We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai." David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
Israel earlier invaded Egypt and Jordan in 1967 taking Jerusalem [East], West Bank [then a part of Jordan] then the Sinai Peninsula of Egypt under the pretext of ''self-defence'' because the 'Arabs were massing troops on the border''. Coincidence? Both done under pretext, conducted quickly, and conveniently 'prophesied' before.
But what about the UN partition plan of 47 Ben Gurion? The one the Jews accepted and the Arabs didn't, thus justifying your declaration of independence and subsequent ''self-defence'' and victory taking more than you wanted?
Ah, you plan to rip up the partiton plan and do what you want anyway?"Every school child knows that there is no such thing in history as a final arrangement -- not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements." -- Ben Gurion, War Diaries, 12/03/1947 following Israel's "acceptance" of the U.N. Partition of 11/29/1947 (Simha Flapan, "Birth of Israel," p.13)
Ah, so once you get powerful enough....there's no need to stick to your word and the 'official line' that; ''the jews accpeted the partition but the arabs refused'', because even if they accepted the partiton too, you planned to break it anyway?"after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine " -- Ben Gurion, p.22 "The Birth of Israel, 1987" Simha Flapan.
Pretty much, eh?"The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today -- but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them." P. 53, "The Birth of Israel, 1987" Simha Flapan
"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population? ‘Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ' Drive them out! ' " Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.You want to get rid of the Palestinians too Ben Gurion?"We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.” David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar's Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.
Holy crap man, ethnic cleansing?October, 1936, during the Jewish Agency Executive meeting Ben-Gurion arguing in favor of transfer as a policy, he said “We are not a state and Britain will not do it for us…” although “there is nothing wrong in the idea.”
“If it was permissible to move an Arab from the Galilee to Judea, why it is impossible to move an Arab from Hebron to Transjordan, which is much closer? There are vast expanses of land there and we are over crowded….Even the High Commission agrees to a transfer to Transjordan if we equip the peasants with land and money. If the Peel Commission and the London Government accept, we’ll remove the land problem from the agenda.”
The Arabs, Ben-Gurion claimed, would not become landless as a result of Zionist land acquisition; ''they would be transferred to Transjordan.''
October 29, 1936 the 21 member of the Jewish Agency Executive endorsed the proposal of a transfer of displaced Arab farmers to Transjordan. Only two of the four non-Zionist members opted to dissent. Flapan, Zionism and the Palestinians, citing protocols of the Executive meeting, p. 26112 July 1937, Ben-Gurion entered in his diary: “The compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own feet during the days of the First and Second Temple” – a Galilee free from Arab population.
Ben-Gurion went so far to write: “We must prepare ourselves to carry out” the transfer [emphasis in original]27 July 1937, Ben-Gurion wrote in a letter to his 16 year old son Amos: “We have never wanted to dispossess the Arabs [but] because Britain is giving them part of the country which had been promised to us, it is fair that the Arabs in our state be transferred to the Arab portion”
5 October 1937, Ben-Gurion wrote in a letter to his 16 year old son Amos: “We must expel the Arabs and take their places…. And, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places- then we have force at our disposal.”....but why?
Ah...to maintain a Jewish majority state? Of far more than 60% to 40% Arabs?....how will you carry out this transfer? and what of Jerusalem?Ben-Gurion in an address to the central committee of the Histadrut on 30 December 1947: “In the area allocated to the Jewish State there are not more than 520,000 Jews and about 350,000 non-Jews, mostly Arabs. Together with the Jews of Jerusalem, the total population of the Jewish State at the time of its establishment will be about a million, including almost 40 percent non-Jews. Such a [population] composition does not provide a stable basis for a Jewish State. This [demographic] fact must be viewed in all its clarity and acuteness. With such a [population] composition, there cannot even be absolute certainty that control will remain in the hands of the Jewish majority…. There can be no stable and strong Jewish State so long as it has a Jewish majority of only 60 percent.”
On the 6th of February 1948, during a Mapai Party Council, Ben-Gurion responded to a remark from a member of the audience that “we have no land there” [in the hills and mountains west of Jerusalem] by saying: “The war will give us the land. The concepts of “ours” and “not ours” are peace concepts, only, and in war they lose their whole meaning” (Ben-Gurion, War Diary, Vol. 1, entry dated 6 February 1948. p.211)Addressing the Mapai Council the following day, Ben-Gurion declared: “From your entry into Jerusalem, through Lifta, Romema… there are no Arabs. One hundred percent Jews. Since Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, it has not been so Jewish. In many Arab neighborhoods in the west one sees not a single Arab. I do not assume that this will change… What had happened in Jerusalem… is likely to happen in many parts of the country …in the six, eight or ten months of the campaign there will certainly be great changes in the composition of the population in the country.” (Ben-Gurion, War Diary, Vol. 1, entry dated 7 February 1948. p. 210-211)Ah...you will achieve this aim with war in 1948 against the Arabs, and if you win you get the land? So in other words, you need to declare a war right now in 1948 in order to gain the land you need and establish the demographics you want, by removing Arabs and replacing them with Jews?And two months later, Ben-Gurion speaking to the Zionist Actions Committee on 6 April, Ben-Gurion declared: “We will not be able to win the war if we do not, during the war, populate upper and lower, eastern and western Galilee, the Negev and Jerusalem area….I believe that war will also bring in its wake a great change in the distribution of the Arab population.” [Ben-Gurion, Behilahem Yisrael, Tel Aviv, Mapai Press, 1952, pp. 86-87]
[note; These quotes were taken months before Israel declared indepenance, and the Arabs attacked ''forcing the Jews to defend themselves''.
An example of this expulsion was Lydda, today called Lodd. In 1948 after the Jews captured their town, the residents were forced to march in the hot desert for 3 days in order to be expelled.Ben-Gurion wrote in his diary on 12 July 1937: “the compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys of the projected Jewish State…. We have to stick to this conclusion the same way we grabbed the Balfour Declaration, more than that, the same way we grabbed at Zionism itself.” (Ben-Gurion, Zichronot [Memoirs], Vol. 4, p. 299)
http://www.ameu.org/summary1.asp?iid=64
....but what if the Arabs attack?
Ah, right, you will deal with them by bringing in all the worlds Jews? I.e. Law of Return?“It is very possible that the Arabs of the neighboring countries will come to their aid against us. But our strength will exceed theirs. Not only because we will be better organized and equipped, but because behind us there stands a still larger force, superior in quantity and quality …the whole younger generation of Jews from Europe and America.” Ben-Gurion, Zichronot [Memoirs], Vol. 4, p.297-299, p. 330-331. See also Teveth, Ben-Gurion and the Palestinian Arabs, p. 182-189
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Hope you saw a different side to the story, told from Jewish eyes, the leader of the Zionist Jewsin 1948 to be exact.
We can decipher certain things.
- The Jewish leaders intended always to steal teh land, and they themelves considered it stealing as they themselves considered the land Arab
- They intended from the beginning to ethnic cleanse Arabs and throw them out of their homes to replace them with Jews, in order to maintain a certain percentage of Jews to Arabs
- Intended war far before 1948 when the established story is '' the Arabs mercilessly attacked'', the war the Jews planned was going to allow them to carry out points 1 & 2.
- Intended to break the partition from the start as soon as they got powerful enough, laying waste to the established story that the ''Jews were so reasonable accepting this plan, and the Arabs stupid for not'' considering the Jews only wanted to accept it while they were weak, and intended to break it when they were strong.
- Planned the invasion of Lebanon and the 6 day war to seize Jerusalem, West Bank, Golan, Sinai, Gaza, and Southern Lebanon 20 years in advance laying waste to the theory they acted in ''self defence'' they wanted that war.
I always say, and will always say, the Palestinian revolutionaries, are the Israelis number 1 fans. They are merely following the same steps that the Jews took prior to 1948. Same strategy, elements, rhetoric, and goal.
What a mess.
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Originally Posted by vizigothe
