Long-time RTW player is torn...

[Stella]

I've been playing RTW off and on since it came out, and I finally decided to check out M2TW but I'm kind of torn.

On the one hand, I absolutely love the upgrades to the campaign map. Sure there's the better graphics and all, but the new agents, the diplomacy, religion, the way you recruit troops, the non-shittiness of mercenaries, the Papacy, the castle/city dynamic...I love it all to pieces. So much so that I can't really imagine playing the RTW campaign map again.

But the actual battles, which are a huge element of the game for me, have been a huge letdown. So much so that I'm thinking about abandoning all of the wonderful things I mentioned above and going back to RTW.

For one, the units all seem to react very sluggishly and often not at all, especially if they're grouped. If I've massed together 3 units of cavalry for example and give them all an order to attack a specific unit they do what I say maybe 1/3 of the time. They usually either ignore my order completely or one unit will do what I say and the other two run off in the opposite direction. If I tell a cavalry unit to charge into the rear of engaged infantry, they actually charge a small fraction of the time, and even when they do charge they never form up properly and the charge has virtually no effect. So maybe one out of 10 times everything happens the way it's supposed to. The unit follows my orders, forms up properly, and actually charges into the infantry's rear, and it STILL does very little damage compared to RTW. 10x the work and frustration for maybe 1/2 the benefit.

And that's just the problems with cavalry. Every unit seems to react sluggishly to commands. If I try to maneuver some fast infantry around the enemies flank to strike from the rear, the whole thing goes to hell if one of my guys comes even close to the enemy line coming around the corner. I have to order them way out to the side first to have any hope of them going where I want them to, and by then it's too late.

I'm sorry if this seems like a rant...I just finished a particularly frustrating play session. I really want to love this game, and there are many parts that I do love, but I can't get past the clumsy combat.

Can you guys illuminate me? What am I missing? Maybe I'm just not doing something right.

EDIT: I have version 1.2, btw

[Landtuber]

If your playing vanilla (no mods), stop playing vanilla. Get Stainless Steel 6.1 is my recommendation (6.1 is if you have kingdoms expansion, not sure which version for basic M2TW). Makes a large difference, really improves the combat AI.

[Stella]

If your playing vanilla (no mods), stop playing vanilla. Get Stainless Steel 6.1 is my recommendation (6.1 is if you have kingdoms expansion, not sure which version for basic M2TW). Makes a large difference, really improves the combat AI.

Thanks for the reply...the problem is that I played a lot of multiplayer in RTW and I was planning to do the same with M2TW. I'm guessing you can't do multiplayer with mods.

[France]

Ya SS 6.1 is probably the best mod, only sucky part is the sucky pikes.

[damn u obama]

I play dlv and it hasn't let me down so far

[silver_shadow14]

Link to S.S. (For the lazy ones)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=159996

[France]

Everyone loves SS

[The Noble Lord]

My friend, vanilla is good and all that but you should go for the best in the business. And that would be SS and BC mods. They are truly the best of the best.
After playing RTW for so long you need somthing different that would re energize you and make you fall in love with M2TW. The mods that will do the job are Stainless Steel and Broken Crescent.
Go for it.

[Voolma]

Can somebody tell what SS version is for vanilla? Kingdoms not installed.

[The Noble Lord]

Can somebody tell what SS version is for vanilla? Kingdoms not installed.

You have to have Kingdoms installed in order to be able to play SS mod.
And go for the latest version of the mod which is SS 6.1 and you will love it.

[Sorkenlol]

Can somebody tell what SS version is for vanilla? Kingdoms not installed.

You need to have kingdoms for SS, there's no SS version for vanilla.

I go with the rest, get Stainless Steel! It's an incredible mod, I played vanilla for about 2 weeks when I got M2TW, then I downloaded stainless steel and it blew my mind, like a great expansion or something. The AI is much improved, and all that, but what I like most is the campaign map, LOTS of new cities and towns, if I remember correctly, the Iberian peninsula was only controlled by 1 region in vanilla, now it's split up into over 7-8 regions.

[Juli]

Go DarthMod, Stella. You´ll love it. DarthMod RULEZZZZZZ
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=293

I dont know Stainless Steel or Broken Crescent, but the community priases them all the time, so they must both be good

[Silent Assassin]

You need to have kingdoms for SS, there's no SS version for vanilla.

I go with the rest, get Stainless Steel! It's an incredible mod, I played vanilla for about 2 weeks when I got M2TW, then I downloaded stainless steel and it blew my mind, like a great expansion or something. The AI is much improved, and all that, but what I like most is the campaign map, LOTS of new cities and towns, if I remember correctly, the Iberian peninsula was only controlled by 1 region in vanilla, now it's split up into over 7-8 regions.

There was a version for M2tw Vanilla I think it was 4.0 or 4.1 but I odn't know if you can download it anymore

[Haakon]

I thought your units reacted depending on what general you had? Good general = good reactioon.
Bad general/no general = stupid units running around like headless chickens.

[Silent Assassin]

I thought your units reacted depending on what general you had? Good general = good reactioon.
Bad general/no general = stupid units running around like headless chickens.

[Haakon]

Yeah, at least thats what I have thought so far :hmmm:
I think I have to run some tests to be sure.

[Silent Assassin]

Yeah, at least thats what I have thought so far :hmmm:
I think I have to run some tests to be sure.

No the thing is the general will play a role on the mooral of your troops that is about it

[Pink Beard]

No the thing is the general will play a role on the mooral of your troops that is about it

well stainless steel has included a trait for the king that is "offends the nobility". with this trait generals will either obey the leige (+ loyalty) and other disobey. (huge loyalty penalty). i've noticed the disobedient generals are extremely slow with orders (i've only done the bodyguard. was using the general to get himself killed on a rebel town...) UCH after i click retreat they retreat after 10 seconds.... most of the bodyguards we're dead by that time...

[Landtuber]

That's what I thought happened as well, especially in RTW days. The higher command your general the faster and more reliably your men reacted, at least that is what I observed. Don't notice it as much in MT2W, but try leading a battle with a captain, then play the same battle with a high command general and it makes a difference.

Note that the difference when clicking one unit around is almost nil, it shows more when your ordering multiple units at the same time that the command comes into play.

No one else has seemed to notice a difference? I could just be crazy...

[ColdFire]

Don't forget that ETW will be out soon, will you be getting that?