Siege Tactics?

[silver_shadow14]

Hi, I am new to this board and the game and am having trouble taking enemy cities, castles, etc. I am decent in open field battles, but the tactics I use in those battles don't work within the enemies walls because there is no room to maneuver. Are there any tactics that I can use to help my siege game?

[Viking Prince Olaf]

Well really and truthful.....no sorry but seiging is the hardest part of the game actually..... You have to remember Cavelry is good for open battle but in seiges their near useless. You need good quality spear and swordsmen for A good seige and seige engines are helpful too. If you can't let go of cavelry their good for rushing through the gap for right when you blow down the walls or gate (preferbly walls because gate limits it and usually they have units waiting at the gate because it's A small entry.) Seiging is so hard I've been playing for 3 years and still havn't mastered the art. So bottom line.....when assulting walls infantry is vital especially swordsmen as they are better at very close range battle than long spears. I guess thats all I got.


If you need anything just pm me on my frofile and I'll check this thread daily for any more of your questions.......

[Landtuber]

Easiest way is to starve them out so that they have to sally out or die. Granted this takes a long time usually so not always prudent.

For tactics, Seiges usually come down to a close range slugfest between infantry in the close confines of the streets. For taking walls, avoid using spearmen and DO NOT use 2 handed infantry. Spears need a little more room to be effective and 2 handed weapons require way more room than is available on a wall. Best are sword/shield infantry or the best equivalent of it you have. If you don't have any at all, break the walls/gates with siege equipment and charge through the gap/gate, ignore the enemy on the top of the wall.

Once the walls/gates are yours, start fighting through the streets. If their forces are all concentrated in a line between the city center and you, you can usually flank them by sending units (preferably cavalry) through connecting streets to hit them from behind. Heavy Infantry work as well, but much slower.

It really does come down to a slugfest though. Bring lots of heavy infantry and missile units (place them on the enemy walls once you've taken them and fire down on the enemies head) or just wait them out.

Hope that helps a bit!

[Viking Prince Olaf]

That's true gecko, Head em off at the town square after you defeat their garrisoned wall units.

[Muagan_ra]

(1) On the contrary, I think cavalry can be very useful in siege battles - for precisely the same reason they're useful in field engagements; charging down routing oponents.

Once you burst through the gates, or a breach in the walls, there is the inevitable slogfest between the heavy infantry. You will gain the upperhand if you have good troops and enough of them, but the fighting could potentially be very prolonged and cause serious casualities. Satisfying though it may be to watch a massive brawl, it's not good for you, because when the enemy does eventually rout and head back towards their plaza you won't be able to outrun them. They will get back to the plaza and be immediately fighting fit again.

Therefore, I always find it usefull to charge my heavy cavalry into the midst of the fighting once the enemy starts losing confidence. In the crowded situtations of street fighting this causes cascading routs, and your cavalry will be able to mow down entire cohorts of enemies in the narrow streets.

(2) A small tip; you'd best bring Artillery with you, and use those to get inside the city/castle. I wouldn't bother with siege towers unless you have crack infantry units that can take on anything (you really need dismounted Knights/Broken Lances/Men At Arms for fighting over the defensive walls.) As soon as you blow a hole in the walls and take out the nearby towers, you should be able to charge right in and start the fighting - any enemies on the walls should come down to fight you.

And, artillery is a lot of fun.

[Viking Prince Olaf]

Yes but their won't be hardly any left with the inevitability of them all being crushed with the small spaces of the gateway. 1. It makes charges useless. 2. If spearmen are waiting even 1 unit atleast 2 units of the heaviest cavelry will be slaughtered EASY. So cavelry ARE near useless in assults, but on the contrary the most usefull on the field.

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Go Green, and save the trees.....!!!!!

[Viking Prince]

Hi, I am new to this board and the game and am having trouble taking enemy cities, castles, etc. I am decent in open field battles, but the tactics I use in those battles don't work within the enemies walls because there is no room to maneuver. Are there any tactics that I can use to help my siege game?

Welcome to the forum.

When starting out as a newbie -- I waited out the enemy and let them sally out of the walls. I usually used a General a few militia spears and a peasant archer or two. The enemy was usually a unit or two stronger which is ok.

First thing would be to back everybody up a bit. This lets the enemy to spread out and be more vulnerable. Place the general off to the side. Place all infantry in line 3 or 4 deep and the peasant archer(s) in loose formation, skirmish off and behind the infantry with flames on.

Watch for a vulnerable unit that the general can charge and break -- easier to do against the archers and town militia. Once in contact -- charge again through the unit and they should break (this charging through may not work with the mailed knights that you start with, but the General has better heavy cavalry). Repeat until enemy is broken and the end battle screen comes up.

Do not be tempted to follow the broken enemy units into the settlement and fight in the square -- the enemy has super morale there and you will be fighting to the last man -- usually yours. Stay outside and patient -- let the enemy regroup and continue to pick off.

This is a more expensive way to fight since a 4 or 7 turn seige means more time with the unts in the field for upkeep. As long as you are not a blitzer and socking every settlement, this tactic should be in balance with you income.

With more experience you will learn to modify the play as you learn how each unit works. This should get you started though!

Good luck and keep us informed!

[CaeserAugustus]

Well I have to disagree with the cavalry are useless statement. but I don't charge them into the fighting. I usually send them through side streets to attack the rear of particularly stubborn clumps of troops in the streets. nother useful strategy is to, if you have enough cavalry, charge them all to the center in an unprotected route, kill the small amount of units in their while your infantry are in their slugfest, then when your infantry start routing theirs, charge your cavalry at them as they're almost at the town center and massacre them.

[Viking Prince Olaf]

Well I have to disagree with the cavalry are useless statement. but I don't charge them into the fighting. I usually send them through side streets to attack the rear of particularly stubborn clumps of troops in the streets. nother useful strategy is to, if you have enough cavalry, charge them all to the center in an unprotected route, kill the small amount of units in their while your infantry are in their slugfest, then when your infantry start routing theirs, charge your cavalry at them as they're almost at the town center and massacre them.

Thats the problem, You have to get them through the gate or wall to get in and expect spearmen waiting for you.

[Silent Assassin]

Well I have to disagree with the cavalry are useless statement. but I don't charge them into the fighting. I usually send them through side streets to attack the rear of particularly stubborn clumps of troops in the streets. nother useful strategy is to, if you have enough cavalry, charge them all to the center in an unprotected route, kill the small amount of units in their while your infantry are in their slugfest, then when your infantry start routing theirs, charge your cavalry at them as they're almost at the town center and massacre them.

I agree with the first part of your statement I usualy do this when I'am outnumbered by the ennemy, Works wonders for me

[silver_shadow14]

Wow, thanks for all the replies guys Im gonna go practice these tactics now, I couldn't do it yesterday because I was waiting for the massive download which is stainless steel 6.0 and 6.1. The thing about the cavalry is I use them to get to the city itself unless it is within walking distance one of mine. In an unrelated question, how do I have multiple armies join a crusade? I seem to have lost the button

[Walternat0r]

You just need a general at the head of an army of 7+ units (ish) to join a crusade. With a crusade called, and a general in an army, you right click his unit card (when not in settlement) and this brings up the mercenary tab. At the bottom of this scroll is a lil blue button just click it. For multiple armies on crusade just get another family member with an army and do the same.

On seige assualting.. I generally let the auto-resolve do it with fortress/citadels because it just takes forever lol. I do like taking cities and small towns though. Those low walls are fantastic for shooting over! I will say this though, by making a breach in a wall with artillery, march archers/artillery up to right close in that hole and start firing. Can usually get a good few kills that way, then flood some heavy infantry in to engage what units are there. I tend to then force my cavalry through and around the back of defenders, either aiming for the centre or to take out any archers/artillery they may have.

Also, take it slow in seiges. The defenders can fight forever in the centre whereas your guys will get knackered running to the middle then fighting and will run off. So walk them up bit by bit, using archers and catapults etc to keep up constant fire. When they bunch up in the centre, make a wall of dudes just outside the flags and shoot the crap outta them. Then (centre square size allowing) surround them and fight them from all sides, maybe with cavalry hitting them with repeat charges from the back. Once in the centre square the AI tends to get very immobile i've noticed.

[silver_shadow14]

You just need a general at the head of an army of 7+ units (ish) to join a crusade. With a crusade called, and a general in an army, you right click his unit card (when not in settlement) and this brings up the mercenary tab. At the bottom of this scroll is a lil blue button just click it. For multiple armies on crusade just get another family member with an army and do the same.

On seige assualting.. I generally let the auto-resolve do it with fortress/citadels because it just takes forever lol. I do like taking cities and small towns though. Those low walls are fantastic for shooting over! I will say this though, by making a breach in a wall with artillery, march archers/artillery up to right close in that hole and start firing. Can usually get a good few kills that way, then flood some heavy infantry in to engage what units are there. I tend to then force my cavalry through and around the back of defenders, either aiming for the centre or to take out any archers/artillery they may have.

Also, take it slow in seiges. The defenders can fight forever in the centre whereas your guys will get knackered running to the middle then fighting and will run off. So walk them up bit by bit, using archers and catapults etc to keep up constant fire. When they bunch up in the centre, make a wall of dudes just outside the flags and shoot the crap outta them. Then (centre square size allowing) surround them and fight them from all sides, maybe with cavalry hitting them with repeat charges from the back. Once in the centre square the AI tends to get very immobile i've noticed.

Yes I think they are immobile because if they accidentally move out of the square then they will have only 3 minutes to win it back. I like the sound of these tactics, I will try them now. I'll post back in about an hour with the results.

[Conquistatore]

The basic rule of a siege is to not use scaling ladders unless you have heavily armoured and armed troops to scale them. For some reason the ladders are the worst way to assault the walls of a province and if you don't have highly skilled infantry then those men will be coming back down the ladders quicker than they went up. When you have a large sieging army, try to breach the walls at multiple points. Surround the castle if you can, have a siege tower on one side, a battering ram for the main gate and another siege tower on the opposite side to the first. This way your enemy has to divide his defenders to meet your troops on all fronts.. im sure you know the old saying "Divide and Conquer"? Well this applies here. As the attacking progresses carefully watch your troops to see if one group is making some ground and about to break through, as soon as you see this, send more troops to that area to completely overwhelm the enemy and force them to rout.

When this is done, you are free to move on to another section of the town/castle to help your attackers there. Eventually you will need to flank and route the defenders and slaughter them in the main square. Archers are useful here for that reason, send them in to engage the units sitting in the main square and draw them out into your waiting swords/cavalry.

[Lord Sherwin]

If you have more and better quality of armies than your opponent, take the walls on the next turn, this will give your General a good traits, ie GoodAttacker, GoodSiegeAttacker, GoodCommander etc.

If you and your opponents have a balanced power and the ratio is 1:1 have more patience let them starved and die! force them to come out and face you in the open. And if they did that you have 90% of winning the battle. see diagram below...



______________front__________________________ General/Cavalry
-Archer--Archer--Archer- <on skirmish mode / fire at will>
----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------

-Spearmen-Spearmen-Spearmen-Spearmen- <on guard mode>
_____________rear____________________________________


positioned your archer on the front <skirmish mode/fire at will> they will automatically fire on your enemy. base on my experience it is always the archer who comes running out the gate, you now have a good advantage there because you are firing at them whilst there reforming and before they can start firing back at you. let your archer engage with them.

next thing you will see is his infantry marching towards your archer, again patience dont rush let them march to their death... as your archer is set to skirmish mode they will avoid melee and will run back to keep distance with their infantry and will fire back again once they have a good distance, wait until the enemy infantry meet yours fresh and ready to butcher. your infantry is on guard mode so they will hold their position. dont make your infantry charge on the enemy let them defend their position. right before the collision, click on the special ability of your general to give some morale on your troops hehehe... just let them know that you are there... as the enemy march towards your infantry, their archer will be left alone at the back, this will be the perfect time to charge your General/Cavalry on their archer. you dont have to finish them all just make them route. after that you now then have a good position to charge their infantry on their rear whilst engaging your infantry. aim to their general to finish the game.


Approaching the walls with balance power is not a good idea you will lose 3% to 5% of your armies before you get there plus knowing the towers are firing at you as well. Check on how long they can keep their settlement, if it will be long, send troops along the way that has a good ambush position, then again your general will earn a good traits.

[O'Hea]

Artillery, even pre-gunpowder artillery, is your best friend. Stand off, punch as many holes in the walls as you can, and shell the hell out of 'em before moving in. They can give you cover during the street fighting, and the morale hurt they cause can tip the scales for you.

If you don't have any arty, then go for the walls. The gate is a meatgrinder. Put Dismounted Knights or some other kind of swordsmen up, either on ladders or towers (I prefer ladders), and take the gatehouse (I usually don't bother with rams). Put them back on the ground, run some heavy cavalry in through the gates and put some missile troops up on the walls, the make a mad dash for the plaza.

It's not as safe as starving them out, but sometimes it's the only option.

[Viking Prince]

Artillery, even pre-gunpowder artillery, is your best friend. Stand off, punch as many holes in the walls as you can, and shell the hell out of 'em before moving in. They can give you cover during the street fighting, and the morale hurt they cause can tip the scales for you.

If you don't have any arty, then go for the walls. The gate is a meatgrinder. Put Dismounted Knights or some other kind of swordsmen up, either on ladders or towers (I prefer ladders), and take the gatehouse (I usually don't bother with rams). Put them back on the ground, run some heavy cavalry in through the gates and put some missile troops up on the walls, the make a mad dash for the plaza.

It's not as safe as starving them out, but sometimes it's the only option.

Good post.

This is also a reason for using your largest city to specialize from turn one in artillery. The catapaults are very useful in the first conflict between Catholic factions. No need to wait to build seige equipment and possibly be warned off by the Pope Decisive blows make for strategic victories.

[Panzerbear]

the siege tactics can vary, but it all usually boils down to the following:

use ballistas or artillery to wipe out the towers that can hurt your troops, then make a couple of big holes in a wall and send in your heaviest infantry through them, coupled with spearmen. and then send in the general behind them and blow your horn from time to time to boost your morale and weaken enemy's.

as a matter of fact, I regard archers or crossbowmen during sieges as waste of the spot in your sieging army. they cant do much damage anyway. its much better to substitute them with infantry.

if you are willing to take your time and try to starve them, the tactics is completely different. the enemy will run out through the gates and this is their main weakness. let at least half of their army run out and slaughter them with cavalry on both sides.

if they have heavy infantry-based army, they wont break as easily, so you will have to pull your cavalry back and pulverize them with your archers, and do the rest as usual.

[claudius2007]

I disagree with the fact that archers are useless in sieges. On VH/VH it's often great to rush in through the gates with some infantry, clear the nearby walls and mount your own archers on them facing inside. The AI will often NOT make his last stand at the gates, but will continue sending troops towards you from the town center. At this point, advancing his troops through narrow streets facing 2 walls covered with archers peppering them down may be a deadly game. Once they reach your infantry (which is still supposed to close down the TWO main streets leading to the center) you will be able to route the enemy easily. Keep doing this until you have a comfortable numerical advantage. After that attack the town center with everyone you have.

So recap:

1. Don't move your troops in the firing range of the towers until a breach is created. (if you have rams just send them off towards the gate and leave others behind; make sure you have enough people pushing the rams as the AI will often sally forth to attack and then retreat back behind the gates) If you have artillery knock down the gate if you have archers in your sieging army so you can place them on the walls.

2. Rush in the city with a sizable force (don't send everyone though, always keep reserves). Capture the gate and remove enemy archers from walls with your infantry(they usually break fast even to Spear Militia or lower tier infantry) Remove the skirmish mode option from your archers (so they dont run around like idiots when entering the city) and order them to take the positions on the walls around the gate. Don't crowd more than 2 units of archers on one wall.

3. Blockade the two streets with infantry (preferably spearmen with some heavy infantry among them).

4. If your cavalry hasn't been used it, send them in on the first street next to the gate to the left and right to protect the entrances to the towers where your archers will reside.

5. WAIT for the enemy to attempt to push you out of the city.

6. When comfortable with your numerical advantage attack the town center from at least two directions. This usually helps crush the enemy in the town center quicker, as they never route from there so you will need to kill them to the last.

This strategy has always worked for me on VH/VH with pretty much any faction. Of course, espionage is in my opinion very important before deciding to go with a siege as you can choose the kind of troops you will use according to the enemy's vulnerabilities in his army. (for example, if he has a lot of spearmen get a lot of heavy infantry,etc.) So obviously you will always have to adapt. There will never be "a perfect stack" so get used to the idea of adapting when it comes to various bulk units. Make sure however that your army has a very well defined core (a little bit of everything).

[Treize]

Cavalry is actually awsome (if the settlement has less than 2 layers of walls or else you have to kill the men on the walls first in order to roll your seige engines towards the second layer...)
Make a hole in the wall or gate and then charg in lots of cav and kill everyone (I usually do this, but I hate sieging It is quite costly).

You might want to attack from 2 sides (front and 1 side).