One must die...

[Morkonan]

This is a sort of philosophical/moral question I had posed on a board a long time ago. Some lively discussion came of it. So, I'll pose it hear and see what some have to say:

____________

You are standing at a cliff in a group with five other people.

One is a teacher who spends her days serving her students and trying her best to provide an education them.

One is a doctor who has dedicated his life to doing all he can to help others and who frequently volunteers to tend to those in need without the means to pay.

One is a minister who serves his congregation as best he can and lives as moral a life as he can possibly lead.

Another is civil servant who serves her constituents and fellow citizens as best she is able, providing for many programs and tending to the needs of those who are unable to make their way in the world.

The last is a criminal who has apparently lived his life by stealing and bribery, taking whatever he can without seeming to care about the needs of others.

You have been tasked by The Powers That Be to choose one of your number to be thrown off the cliff to their deaths. There is no way around this - One must die. There are no conditions - One must die. There are no tricks or logic puzzles, no special hidden significances - One must die. There is only one final arbitrating Rule that can not be avoided and can not be denied - One must die.

Who do you choose?
Why?
_______________________

This isn't a trick question. It isn't posed to "fool" anyone. There is also only one correct choice, in my opinion. There is also only one correct reason "why" as well. Attach whatever significance to the descriptions of others in the group that you wish. It will avail you not!

I'll let those who wish mull over the answer and provide answers to non-leading questions as I am able. In a few days, I'll post what my answer is and why. It is, after all, my question.

Note: None can be simply left to die of old age, sickness or other natural or unnatural causes that are not a direct result of you making a conscious choice in throwing one of the group off the cliff.

[Rich86]

The knee-jerk answer has to be the criminal...the guy who has leeched off society and contributes nothing...the question is, is this a good enough reason to kill someone? After all plenty of people have similar jobs that are lawful - arguably bookies 'leech' off society, taking money from people with gambling problems....yet contributing very little in the grand scheme of things.

Hmmm :hmmm:

[Taiji]

I'd get them to draw straws.

Murder is not a punishment it's a crime.

[D.B. Cooper]

The criminal would go off. I wouldn't sleep for a couple of days, and petty crime isn't usually a reason by itself to kill someone, but if I absolutely had to pick someone it would be the criminal. The others have done nothing wrong, and everything good. The criminal is a criminal and out of all of them his life has the least worth to me because of what he's made out of it.

Killing the criminal is doing wrong, but it's the least wrong. It would make no sense to let him run off and kill someone who was innocent. There is no moral dilemma.

[Morkonan]

What is wrong or good? According to who's standards are such things judged?

(That's enough mystical mumbo jumbo from me for the day. Going to hit the rack for awhile. It's a pretty interesting dilemma once it has been chewed on for awhile. But, I think there is a final and fully justifiable answer available.)

[Alkarin]

The criminal would go off. I wouldn't sleep for a couple of days, and petty crime isn't usually a reason by itself to kill someone, but if I absolutely had to pick someone it would be the criminal. The others have done nothing wrong, and everything good. The criminal is a criminal and out of all of them his life has the least worth to me because of what he's made out of it.

Killing the criminal is doing wrong, but it's the least wrong. It would make no sense to let him run off and kill someone who was innocent. There is no moral dilemma.

agreed. i dont like these 'one must die' threads they are too easy to decided upon. give me something to think about

[Morkonan]

agreed. i dont like these 'one must die' threads they are too easy to decided upon. give me something to think about

How about this:

Think about a choice you wouldn't normally make and then do your best to argue your point. Try to construct a logical and self-supporting argument that can stand on its own merits. Sure, not many can. But, the "fun" is trying to make a logic-puzzle argument that can survive scrutiny even if you wouldn't believe you would actually make that choice.

It's sort of a game of "Devil's Advocate" with yourself. You choose a position normally contrary to your ideals, if you find little satisfaction in choosing a normal one for you, and then try to argue the point. It can be helpful as well as you're sometimes forced to examine your own thoughts about morality, ethics, your beliefs and your social values. That's one of the major points of these types of questions.

But, I'm not tooting my own horn. There's nothing to say the thread is satisfying simply because I made it. "Your experiences may differ. Satisfaction is not guaranteed. Contents may settle during shipment."

[StalkAndStrike]

I'd get them to draw straws.

Murder is not a punishment it's a crime.

Couldn't be more right my friend

[Garrigan]

I think Taiji may have the right answer for me there, leave it up to chance.

However, that wouldnt have been necessary if you said one of them was a traffic warden.

[Morkonan]

Remember, The Powers That Be have tasked you to choose. They didn't say leave it up to chance or consciously make a "not choice" decision.

You must choose.

Does leaving it up to chance count as a choice? Don't forget, you have to choose and explain why as well.

[Arto]

Do you have the option of throwing yourself of the cliff?

If yes, the criminal must die.

If no, the criminal must die.

Ar-Pharazôn can explain my choice.

[Garrigan]

Yes. Leaving it up to chance counts as a choice as when the straws are drawn you could still change your mind and choose someone else if you didnt like the result.

I would leave it up to chance like this as I dont think I would be in any position to decide which among these people had a greater or lesser right to life.

[Morkonan]

Yes. Leaving it up to chance counts as a choice as when the straws are drawn you could still change your mind and choose someone else if you didnt like the result.

I would leave it up to chance like this as I dont think I would be in any position to decide which among these people had a greater or lesser right to life.

Ah, but if you weren't fully prepared to commit to "chance" then what use would it be to begin with? Even then, how does "chance" serve as a conscious choice in this situation? Isn't that just like sitting back and doing nothing or trying to allow one to die of old age or starvation and abrogating your own responsibility in making a decision? (Neither of those are a valid option btw. I'll correct that in the OP so it clearly denies that "choice.")

[Musthavename]

Religion is the source of all evil! The criminal was only doing what he thought God intended, he was the minister's pawn all along, KILL HIM INSTEAD.

Nah, just kidding. (I'm going to laugh if someone only reads that first paragraph and flames me ) Theres only the criminal as the one obvious choice. The tricky question is this. You kill the criminal, and the "Powers that Be", proclaim he would be executed regardless of your decision, and demand you pick one of the remaining four. Who shall it be?

If the second situation happened, then i'd just leave it up to chance (assuming one of them doesn't have something ridiculous like murder in their history). There's nothing wrong with deciding it by chance, aslong as the chance is fair. Let's say two twins lead an identical life and you had to kill one. There's no other way to choose but by chance. You have to base the assumption that the remaining four are all respectable people who's lives have "equal value". Though admittedly, I would probably spare the doctor from this chance. The other three all help people, but you can argue that someone at the shop's tills helps someone, only the doctor could regularly save someones life.

[Garrigan]

Ah, but if you weren't fully prepared to commit to "chance" then what use would it be to begin with? Even then, how does "chance" serve as a conscious choice in this situation? Isn't that just like sitting back and doing nothing or trying to allow one to die of old age or starvation and abrogating your own responsibility in making a decision? (Neither of those are a valid option btw. I'll correct that in the OP so it clearly denies that "choice.")

I'm not saying I wouldnt be commited to enforcing the result of the game of chance, but I'm just saying that it is a concious choice to enforce that desicion.

If you're saying that isnt valid...then I honestly dont know. I still dont see that I have the knowledge to judge these people as worthy of living, or not worthy.

[Taiji]

It strikes me that none of the contenders have anything over the other with regard to their right to life.

You're moving the goalposts and saying that choosing to leave it to chance is not a choice... even though it's obviously the only correct choice.

Well then I'm going to move the goalposts too.

I'll push The Powers That Be off the cliff, they almost seem to deserve it unlike everyone else.

[Morkonan]

It strikes me that none of the contenders have anything over the other with regard to their right to life.

You're moving the goalposts and saying that choosing to leave it to chance is not a choice... even though it's obviously the only correct choice.

Well then I'm going to move the goalposts too.

I'll push The Powers That Be off the cliff, they almost seem to deserve it unlike everyone else.

LOLZ

That would be a great answer if it were a choice. Sadly, the haughty and uncaring Powers That Be have removed themselves from being an eligible choice. They are not part of the group you must choose from.

I honestly am not moving the goalposts though. If you wish to leave it up to chance, that's fine. I'm just saying you need to offer an explanation as to "Why?" as well.

It could be correct or incorrect, I'm not saying yet. A lot of the correct answer is in regards to "Why?" After all, it is the most important point of the exercise.

[Musthavename]

I'll push The Powers That Be off the cliff, they almost seem to deserve it unlike everyone else.

Darth Flying Chocolate Digestive, one of the Powers that Be, rises up from the cliff, because he can fly. His buddies then push you off the cliff, the remaining 5 people laugh. Congratulations, you've made the best decision, as although one person still died, you made the five that live have a moment of hilarity that'll last for the rest of their lives (well, i'd think it pretty funny if a flying chocolate digestive pushed someone off a cliff... bit weird but funny nonetheless).

Respect Darth Flying Chocolate Digestive if you want to live.

[Taiji]

Darth Flying Chocolate Digestive, one of the Powers that Be, rises up from the cliff, because he can fly. His buddies then push you off the cliff, the remaining 5 people laugh. Congratulations, you've made the best decision, as although one person still died, you made the five that live have a moment of hilarity that'll last for the rest of their lives (well, i'd think it pretty funny if a flying chocolate digestive pushed someone off a cliff... bit weird but funny nonetheless).

Respect Darth Flying Chocolate Digestive if you want to live.

Hmmm I didn't realise it was Darth Flying Chocolate Digestive, that does change things.

I've been drinking tea all day so I would simply vomit all over him and saunter off to the pub with my newfound mates while he dissolves in agony (biscuit version).

[VALIS]

Shove the minister off the the cliff. He's spent his life peddling lies and discriminative dogma fooling people. All at the same time pretending to be 'right' and 'holy'.
At least the criminal is an honest man when it comes to his crimes.