Need Cure for M2TW Boredom ASAP!!

[Wartower]

Please help! Not trying to be a whiner, but see if you can understand my point of view here.

Have you ever gotten to that stage in any campaign, with any mod or vanilla, where you just got through turning the tide with an epic victory or by having the stage set for claiming victory? That's the point where lately, my brain and interest level completely CTD's.

I guess "fun" has many definitions to people. For me, it's the creation and evolution process much more than the endgame. You know, I can never click on a Long campaign, because the micromanagement involved in controlling over 15 regions is mindnumbing to me. Once I look around the map and see those structures being erected, the merchants in place on the highest producing resources, the princesses freezing would-be enemies with royal marriages, or better yet, stealing their best generals right out of bachelorhood, the diplomats standing around in some distant land doing nothing but pondering who to bribe next, the spies who are bored to tears because they wished that they were assassins, the assassins who are bored to tears because they have killed so many enemy priests they start to feel extremely dirty. This is where I start looking around for a different faction to try.

Yes, I have won quite a few campaigns. But here lately, I just haven't been able to finish any. And again, this with Short victory conditions. I envy those with the intestinal fortitude to be able to complete a Long campaign. My lord, 30 provinces would make me want to pull my hair out.

So, here's what I like when I sit down to play M2TW (any version). I love looking at different units. I like to see buildings that I've never seen before. That's what drew me, like the proverbial moth, to mods like BC and SS. When the eye candy wore off, I found myself bored yet again. So enter DLV. I was swept away. I still like it very much, in fact. Yet I am getting frustrated again because things are getting to feel like "same ol, same ol" again.

So I know our friend Harry Lime is getting ready to upload his DLV Europa this weekend. There's a very good chance that his mod will completely eliminate the need for posting this thread at all. But I would like to hear suggestions for what some of you do when you are bored with the game? And no, "Go play WoW" or something to that effect is not what I'm after. I have access to several other games, but right now, Total War is what does it for me. Empire is a few months from being released and I've tried a lot of mods out there. Funny story. I just got through downloading Hele-somethingorother, the "historical" mod that needs SS to play. Talk about a bummer! There was some great humor in it, but what a drag starting off with full stacks of completely studly units, half stacks of ships and a whole load of provinces under you control. There was no buildup to be done, so for me, that equals no fun.

Anyway, I've droned on long enough. I will leave you with a few of the moments, besides finding DLV, that brought me the most enjoyment out of this game.

Playing as the Rebels in Unspoken Knight's Custom Campaign Mod. Man, if someone took some more time to polish, enhance, flesh-out those rebels, it would be a masterpiece. Also, I really enjoyed the mini-maps. The problem is, it's still vanilla, albeit with a fresh coat of paint.

Lastly, I really enjoyed seeing the new unit cards for SS, BC, and DLV. Hell, the units themselves don't even have to be reskinned, but I really enjoy seeing different units that I can recruit and fight with. This also applies to new buildings and what not.

Well, that's it. I seem to get more enjoyment out of reading these forums than I do playing the game. And that is not good. Nothing against the forums, but you get my drift.

Ideas? What do you do to keep the "fun" alive?

Wartower

[Dauntless Commandant]

Go play WoW!!

Just messing,

Personally I have never got bored of a campaign in DLV because I always make it as hard as possible for me, - I don't see how you have, - although if it is just because you like new eyecandy, colours and buildings etc then you should really play a Fantasy mod - since they are total conversions...

I'm sure that Repman would add many, many new units and buildings, and give you the whole world as a campaign map - but the simple fact is the engine restricts modders alot.

I guess the only way to avoid this problem is by adding new custom campaigns to DLV, as you said Europa should be coming out at the weekend - and I myself will be downloading it to get straight onto playing as Wales.

[Lord Cave]

Well I can't say I have ever reached that level of boredom, my longest campaign only went to 1250 or so. And I've definitely never seen all the units or know where the best resources are.

But I am considering trying my next campaign where I'm not allowed to pause battles.

Hope this helps.

edit:

Oh yeah, I recently started an 'alternate history' of sorts, sort of a pared down AAR, which eventually developed into a full blown AAR, sans pictures. That is quite fun, try it if you haven't.

[ivanhoex]

i fully understand your point wartower, since i have more or less the same playing style as you do

i simply restrict myself a little after certain time.

that means i wont focus as much time on what to build in new cities, i just put the whole queue up and forget about it for some time... city review pannel is helpful, just remember from time to time to search for cities without the hammer and check them out

about spies and assasins as soon as they are not immediately needed i just forget about them or just task them with nigh impossible tasks from time to time.

i never have more than one diplomat and never do bribes.. i use them only to reopen trade treaties after war time are over (and most of the time not even for that, since peace is usually agreed together with a trade treaty)


so i am there all mighty and powerfull, with my grown cities and castles and a strong defensive position...

and i start cleaning up the continuous rebel mess.. and i hate it.

so i leave one general for rebels, two for defense (and a lot of troops around)

as much governers as i can

and then i take one general to battle anywhere. just think of it as a personal crusade.
he can go to fight moors, english, aztecs...
i normally read the details and try to figure out whatever the guy might like to kill the most
(i preffer my general to have funny traits)

then you launch your mini crusade against all odds, waking up hatred in your path.
if you actually reach your target, roleplay the thing as far as you love.
then you are probably under attack now by at least two bordering nations and maybe another one from the lands you crossed. plus the one attacked.

happy enough, there is no time in the game when you can say safely "i am ok with a 4 front all out war".. you can defeat them all... but it wont be easy. nor cheap.



just keep doing it. the army outside your land will keep your money leveled and when under attack.. you might even have some economical distress..

despite being more of the same... with a minimal good aim of target and chosen general things can be pretty interesting.

till you hit the red, your king goes civil war and in two turns you are left without generals and lose XD

[Wartower]

@Ivanhoex - sounds interesting and you do truly understand how I feel.

I am a sucker for the eye candy, yes that's true, but I am also a sucker for DLV in the extreme. I started a campaign as Denmark last night as I couldn't recall actually using them for any length of time in a DLV campaign. It was fun and even though the only native Danish units I was able to recruit were Raiders and Scouts, it was still kinda cool.

Yes, I will be downloading Third Age: Total War. That team is doing a top-notch job. Yes, I will be downloading DLV: Europa, nuff said about that. And yes, I will be getting Empire like most everyone else on here. So it's all good. Just take a lil break, have some patience, and viola, the game gets fun again.

Thanks for your replies!

Total Wartower

[Tokus*Maximus]

If I'm sitting pretty, I wait until a neighbour get ex'd from the church and then advance on them with my own forces to flank the offical crusade army.

PUNITIVE EXPEDITIONS
Generally though, once I've carved up the local part of the planet and settled I use the pool of hard veterans bloodied and produced from mopping up rebels with green soldiers and send these to the best armour and weapon fortress. Then from there, elite armies are dispatched with a stout general to attack and raid cities and castles within the enemy empire (I like a strong fleet to deliver the shock army). A second support army of pure horse also goes along which come in on heavy battles as the AI army and cause total havoc in the enemy ranks, even when they have two armies (or thress in the field). Huge war!

The point of the punitive raid mission is to perish everything alive and strip the captured city/fortress of every building that can be demolished for booty. Leaving all churches standing of course.

I then sell the city to a friendly power. If there's still time and the bad faction remains exo'd - I move the army onto his nearest city/fortress that's still close enough to my 'front line' to withdraw the horse boys and my main army back.

I often sell crusdae succesful targets pretty quickly to the next largest power just to casue trouble for them in that neighbourhood. I don't strip those places - want them to be a powerful pain in the neck for everyone. But the trick is to not attack other factions first unless there have been excommunicated. You can of course attack anyone and go raiding.

I wish faction could return though at this later point in the game if there are many grey rebel regions.

-- Tokus

-- Tokus

[Xtiaan72]

The beginning of a DLV game is definitely the most intriguing. The time period is more interesting and the "struggle" for survival is compelling.

What I think DLV could really use is a scenario with an earlier start date. Perhaps a campaign choice that takes place right before the "Norman" invasion of England?

[Alatar98]

i also push the gunpowder event back 100 years so i. i find it rekendels my interest when i hit the late 1300's

[Harry Lime]

House rules (mine are quite stringent), try to role play as much as possible, set yourself targets and try to achieve them.

BTW, Europa is not as hard as DLV 'proper'. It may have a different take on building/recruitment costs, the Mongol invasion and unit stats but don't expect it to beat DLV for difficulty. repman excels in sheer fiendishness

[repman]

I don't try to make things just more difficult, but more challenging\interesting. The question is what to do later in the game if everything is developed:
- Dark ages can destroy some parts so it's back to the beginning to reconstruct
- endless revolts are not funny
- the inner parts of MTW are not complex enough to give enough fun in itself as politics, family stuff, economy, technology tree research, spiritual stuff,...etc.

So i look what stuff is in Crusader Kings, Knights of Honour, Civ, and transfer it to DLV

repman

[Dauntless Commandant]

I don't try to make things just more difficult, but more challenging\interesting.

repman

And you have totally achieved that aim!

[Alatar98]

a large part of this game is carrot on a stick. You keep playing to see the next big event or item or building. Once you have produced everything all you have left is battles and micromanagement. That is fun for a while but gets boring over after 50 battles.

Developing an AOR (area of recruitment) would add more to the the carrot on a stick. New units as you take different territories.

[Wartower]

Well, it's not the difficulty of the game that gets boring, I think it boils down to micromangement hell. You bust a$$ making sure that every move is as perfect as can be, then you slice the enemy wide open with some great victories and next thing you know, you've tripled the amount of micromangement involved. It's definitely not a DLV thing, just a fact of life for M2TW.

Danish campaign is still going strong I might add. I sorta took the cue from Ivanhoex and pizzed some people off and I'm currently at war with Scotland, Norway, Lithuania, and the Moors. Two are Crusade driven with the Moors just not being able to get over losing Cordoba. Lithuania started getting unusually large pretty quickly so I sicked the pope on 'em...heh. All in all, the gameplay does feel a bit different with open beta 3, and different being a good different. For the first time ever in a DLV campaign that I've played, Narbonne was NOT the first Crusade target selected by the Pope. Another first was that a Rebel half-stack actually grew some sac and not only beseiged Cordoba, but did it while being decently outnumbered! I like that!

In conclusion, I think what would be a great thing for me personally, besides having super powers, of course, would be having the ability to play some bada$$ DLV mini-campaigns. Think of it like this...Unspoken Knight's Custom Campaign Mod and it's multiple smaller versions of the big map, all DLV style baby! Now that's Total War heaven.

Wartower

[Kjertesvein]

I never click on Long campaign.
Mainly: I know I will not finish it, because I does not see it realistic that my Empire expands beyond the historical/realistic borders of my holy roman empire.

Secound: My main settlements infrastructure growth and economic(500 000f.) also comes to an high-end by that time.




Maybe we need to change the victory condiition:

1. Long (empire) campaign: The same as before, shape the new European Emipre.
2. Medium (between/custom)campaign: consist of a new coditions, economic goals or eliminate a faction-not conquering its regions or religious goals.
3. Short (Historical/national) campaign: Achievable historical goals in the time period.

Like Harry said, try to role-play as much as possible. Either medieval agendas or real time... http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=216367

You could also try RL, even though it is really old, it still pretty good.

Cheers