egypt VS mongols

[HunterKiller]

mongol hordes arrived in the campaign map with 9 stacks of army filled with horses, i am having issue fighting them, i win in a stack but i get huge losses like 44% or more, look at this battle mp and tell me what to do in such situation.

[HunterKiller]

i am not a good battle tactician by the way, it isn't just not good, i dont have any experience in battle tactics at all!

[Viking Prince Olaf]

You have Mumluk archers and they have heavy archers so use them to your advantage and use them against each other and they'll cross each others out while your mumluks are some of the BEST units in the game to use against archers and charges against their foot soldeirs and use A team of mumluks and your bodygaurds to kill the enemy general early in the game so you can round up atleast 1/4 of the army as prisoners.

[StalkAndStrike]

If I where you, I would have placed all of my mamluks on the right hand side in this situation, being quality units, they are more than capable ( in mass mind you in case the mongolian's 3 silver experience gets the better of your men) of dealing with the mongolian's own cavalry archers. But try to attract their CA away from the rest of your troops before you start attacking with your light arab cavalry, they tend to rout otherwise...

Also try having a few heavier units in along your stack, or spearmen, so that after your light cavalry pins down their cavalry-based forces, you could send them in to finish the job.

If I was unclear or you have any more questions I'd be glad to answer and best of luck!

regards

stalk

[Viking Prince Olaf]

You see, using your archers against infantry is pointless seeing how they wear cavlar and splint so arrows do practicly no damage + the fact that theirs 60-75 of them and only 40 archers per unit. So use your archers against the Mongolian heavy archers. They wear only leather or
cloth. Do NOT mistake mumluks for fighting cavelry. They are the
Middle Eastern equivelent of Scottish border horses and the same purpose. To round up routing troops even cavelry! They are used for speed not heavy fights so use them against the archers and your bodyguards for their small number of infantry.


Hope that info helps A but + GET SOME HEAVY INFANTRY!!!!!!
Even some Seracean militia would be fine.

[Theseus1234]

You see, using your archers against infantry is pointless seeing how they wear cavlar and splint so arrows do practicly no damage + the fact that theirs 60-75 of them and only 40 archers per unit. So use your archers against the Mongolian heavy archers. They wear only leather or
cloth. Do NOT mistake mumluks for fighting cavelry. They are the
Middle Eastern equivelent of Scottish border horses and the same purpose. To round up routing troops even cavelry! They are used for speed not heavy fights so use them against the archers and your bodyguards for their small number of infantry.

EDIT: sorry, i thought you meant the mamluk archers

Hope that info helps A but + GET SOME HEAVY INFANTRY!!!!!!
Even some Seracean militia would be fine.

no offense but heavy infantry is exactly what you DON'T need. the mongolian infantry PLUS the excess of heavy cavalry AND the horse archers is a heavy infantry killing MACHINE. that's exactly why european powers have such a hard time with the mongols and timurids. spear based infantry is OK, but anything without a spear, a horse, or a bow will get you slaughtered...well one or two MAY be alright.

EDIT: as for the OP, i would send part of my HA to duke it out with the mongolian HAs and the rest of your mamluke HAs around the back of the army and let them be annoying pricks. the rest of your cavalry should be sent both down the middle to the infantry and archers and around the back, while a part of your main cavalry is sent to trap the HAs

[HunterKiller]

allright, when the mongols arrived to the map, i sent a spy to have a look "its the first time i see mongols cuz i never played with arabs before" and i found out they are 9 stacks, i had arround 34000 florins before the war started, i spent up to 19000 florins raising defenses and building a strong strike army, they arrived at antioch before i finish the second army, "army full of mamluks, no arab cavalry" so i head out with the first army and stroke at their fanction heir "i am targeting family members" the problem is, i am not having one army on me, i am having 3 armies, i charged the first army and sloughtered it, then i had two other armies on the right and the left, i reformated my army and began the second charge on the right army, i nearly killed 70% or 60% of it and routed others "they were horses, couldn't prison them" then i found the last army arriving from my back with full horse archers "all of them except the body guard" i kinda thinked, and found out that i need this army, so i fleed having 64% of my army sloughtered, i rebuilt my army and retrained in two turns from "acre" took the second army with me to be one "last chance" army, and stroke at an army with heavy lances "most of" because having mamluks in my army, i could win, but with 44% losses, nearly all mamluks died, i turned back, having my budged arround 12000 florins "while having my army upkeep eating income" i had to build army with arab cavalry "cheaper", while the mongols took antioch from me with two armies "one of their army was totally killed while defending, the other had arround 80% killed" i knew that i am in indire need of haste, so i bought 2 khawarizmans units, kinda expensive but i needed them, and stroke an army near me, i had a heroic victory with the arab cavalry, killed all their army, excuted prisoners, and having 10% killed, i thought winning is easy, i turned to other stack and fought it, i was surprised to find their army full of heavy units "heavy HA, heavy infantry, and heavl lances, alot of heavy lances" i killed arround 70% but my army was totally destroyed "i had 6% of it alive inculding family member " i keep building and bulding they never end, and for now, i have 4000 florins of money, its kinda a big issue, while they ar marching towards damasucs, do u think i should disband defencive units in cities and castle to train offensive? or should i keep that way until the money goes? or what idea u guyz have

that was the explaination of why i didn't have mamluks in my army, and by the way, i had firstly 10 mamluk archers, now i have 4, tomorow i will have 2, as i cant train of them, i have no money though

[squigian]

Someone else can go in-depth with the tactical advice; let me give you a couple of pointers on dealing with the Mongols as a whole.

1) Strike fast. Don't allow them to arrive en masse and turn up with 6+ stacks on your doorstep at once.

2) Use bridges and sieges. Bridges are better but both exploit the weakness of the Mongols and that's a lack of staying power. They rely on hit-and-run tactics and cavalry charges to destroy your army and a bridge/siege only gives them the option of a head-on attack.

3) Make all cav suicide stacks to kill enemy generals. The first wave of Mongolian generals are the best, so 'assassinate' them in a series of 'battles'. You want the less competent generals in command once you're running low on funds.

4) Don't allow them to take a settllement! This lets them reinforce their armies which is a Bad Thing. Have a handful of spies watching out for any sneaky Mongol stacks.

In summary, strike early, hard and play to your strengths/their weaknesses.

[Muagan_ra]

The best way to deal with these mobile, missile orientated armies is two-fold;

- Try to run down and catch their missile cavalry. You just need take a cavalry unit (or a battlefield assassin, an ambush unit) to engage them, and then charge into them with with an overwhelming force of heavy cavalry. Your cavalry really needs to be overwhelming, to make them rout without getting into a prolonged fight which would cause alot of casualties. Attacks which cause fear might help in this, like guns or camels (to horses). Try to have your forces "flow around them like water" to cut off their natural paths of retreat, since they will almost certainly try to withdraw from anything that comes close.

- Another effective way to deal with missile cavalry is to just outshoot them. Most of them are relatively lightly armoured, and with concentrated fire you should mow them down. Use Crossbows if you can, to get through the mongol armour on their heavier troops.

The key to dealing with these large armies is local superiority; you don't need to engage them with equal force. If you can bring overwhelming force to bear on one flank or part of their army, you can cause a cascading rout. Use peasants or other high numbered, low quality troops to absorb their attacks - don't use your good infantry to soak up mongol arrows, save them for when (or if) their infantry tries to engage you.

Lastly, to follow on from what I said earlier about surrounding their cavalry, you can control the way their skirmishers retreat by positioning cavalry to their front and two other sides, they should then retreat in the only other direction. You can actually corrall most of their army into one huge mass if you do it right. Then you can attack with heavy infantry from one side and your cavalry from another. Their disorganisation will make routing them all alot easier.

[HunterKiller]

all your words are very useful, but the real problem is, i dont have enough money to have heavy cavalry, i am having light cavalry and the income comes with minus. i can afford heavy infantry like saracen militia, but thats all, i cant even recruit the lost Mamluk archers "which is the only weapon against their HA, atleast for me" so what i need, is a good tactic with low costs "light units" and little causulties, i have a full army of arab cavalry with some Mamluk archers "around 4" and 4 family members, and still 3 stacks of armies for the mongols, and a city "antioch" i thought about uniting with the turks, as they are at war with the mongols too, but the problem is turks are at war with byzanties, and byzanties are my allies.
the army is my last chance, if there was a tactic to defeat 3 stacks and a city with this low qualified army, then i will be a Napoleonic commander .

[Silent Assassin]

The only one here who gave you the best advise is

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

squigian

by stating to battle with them in sieges or bridges. viewing your money problem also this should do the trick in battle and seiges. Try to have an army composed of Spearmen ( or something similar with alot of your best archers. Let them come I have overcomed 3 full stack of them once but I was playing as England and I must say that Stakes in front of the bridge or your gates does quit a bit of damage on their cavalry.

[CaeserAugustus]

I gotta agree with rebel. Best way to fight em is make them siege. Their maneuverability and most of their archers are made just about useless. Put just enough heavy infantry on the walls to protect archers then tie up their army in and around your gate and let your archers go to work. Ive defeated armies two to three times my size and even when I had only militia with this tactic. Also spear wall is amazing in this but Ive never played as egypt so I dont know what units you can get. But for sure siege and bottleneck is best way to beat em. Fighting them on open field is playing to their strengths.

[Basil the Great]

Yep Rebel is right in your situation it would be better for you to do as Rebel and the other aboved explained

[Silent Assassin]

That fact is that you need to take a couple of things in consideration:

1- What is your faction unit roster
2- How is your economy(War with the Mongols and Tims can get very expensive.
3- Your position on the map and where they are attaking you

[HunterKiller]

all this good but i did try to defend a siege from the mongols cuz i knew that they will be weak due to their bad close combat, but years later, i was reading a story about "qutuz" a Khwarizmi kid whose father was "jalal ad-din" king of khawarizm shah, he was going to rais defences and wait for the mongols to strik on him and defend it, when his cousine told him a say "no people have been invaded in their homes but humiliated", so he listened to his advise, and drove 60,000 men and sloughtered the mongols. i firstly tried to defence "i said lets not stick games with realty" and but my archers on walls and but all spear men in a square "around 16 heavyspearmen + light ones" and two armies stroke, when was killed, other was about to be killed but a mistake happened "it wasn't for me" my troops made a way for the heavy lances to pass from the gate, they passed behind my troops and into my general, and to the square, and the whole formation was brocken and what I lost the city of "Antioch" i lost antioch for just one stack of army and silly mistake, so i built a big army, and striked the mongols, i lose one army for 2 of their armies! thats better than a city though, but thats not the problem, the real problem that i want to lose the last army i have now for 3 of their armies cuz its the last i have and my income is minus because of the high upkeep, "around 20,000 florins upkeep or more"

[Silent Assassin]

Good luck then my friend atleast we tried to help you out, maybe you could become their vassals

[HunterKiller]

thnx man, maybe becoming a vassal is a good choice, but how i do that?! XD

[Silent Assassin]

thnx man, maybe becoming a vassal is a good choice, but how i do that?! XD

They have to do it by sending you a Diplomat and asking you to become it. You now what Vassals means right??

[Viking Prince Olaf]

Well DO NOT let them get A home....If you do their going to keep growing with more cities means tougher and more armies. So focus your attention near the Caspian sea. If they overwhelm you wait in A fortress
and remember before they get A home they can't recruit but you can.
So rule 1: Stay in A fortress when they come. 2: Recruit everything you can and keep your fortresses full of archers and spearmen with upgrades.

[Silent Assassin]

Well DO NOT let them get A home....If you do their going to keep growing with more cities means tougher and more armies. So focus your attention near the Caspian sea. If they overwhelm you wait in A fortress
and remember before they get A home they can't recruit but you can.
So rule 1: Stay in A fortress when they come. 2: Recruit everything you can and keep your fortresses full of archers and spearmen with upgrades.

lol... you should read before posting they already have a Home and more than one