Has Israel doomed the West?

[Ketchup]

Well obviously the title is an exagerrated question but I think the subject has relevance.

The fact that many Western countries (notably USA and Britain) have supported Israel in the past, Bush infact reaffirmed this support just recently, and that the entire Islamic World now hate's Israel's guts (even more than they used to cos of recent events) could spark more terrorist activity by 'Islamic Extremists'. This is my view and, taking it, one must question why Bush persists in supporting Israel (at least openly).

So what are your views on this?

P.S This is not about whether this war is just or if Hamas are wrong or right etc. It is about the global effect it may have.

Cheers

[dragonsign]

I don’t think Israel has "doomed the West", as long as the US can maintain their military expenses they can fund IDF and the Israel lobby in the US is too strong to let any support to Israel slip away. Israel has already been criticised by many countries in the "west".

And I don’t believe in "clash of civilizations"

[Treize]

Not really...
(maybe it already was??)

It's understandable they hate Israel.

[Ketchup]

Perhaps I didn't explain myself properly.

My main point is that perhaps there will be more terrorist attempts at the West because of their support for Israel, a country which Islamic Extremists (and, by extension, terrorists) unaminously hate.

[boofhead]

Right or wrong has little to do with the fact that your moral opponents may disagree (i.e., muslim nations). You can't let hateful people win just by virtue of their hate.

No, the West has little to lose regarding Israel. It's Israeli innocents who have something to lose. The West is losing in a different manner - by allowing tens of millions of muslims to immigrate.

[Panzerbear]

No, the West has little to lose regarding Israel. It's Israeli innocents who have something to lose. The West is losing in a different manner - by allowing tens of millions of muslims to immigrate.

+1.

[Treize]

+1.

+1 both of you!

[danzig]

Right or wrong has little to do with the fact that your moral opponents may disagree (i.e., muslim nations). You can't let hateful people win just by virtue of their hate.

No, the West has little to lose regarding Israel. It's Israeli innocents who have something to lose. The West is losing in a different manner - by allowing tens of millions of muslims to immigrate.

Replace west with Europe there Besides your post goes under the (wrong) assumption that every muslim immigrate is jihadist ready to spring forth at the command of allah to reign death down on the west....instead of you know (the logical) being someone who is looking for a better, more secure life.

[boofhead]

Besides your post goes under the (wrong) assumption that every muslim immigrate is jihadist ready to spring forth at the command of allah to reign death down on the west....instead of you know (the logical) being someone who is looking for a better, more secure life.

Many muslims are good guys. But when people 'seek better lives' they should be fixing and building their own countries, not fleeing to successful nations and sponging off those whose ancestors gave their blood and toil to make their nations what they are. I challenge muslims to show us the power of Dar-el-Islam, 'muslim lands', and build them up themselves without sponging off the so-called West.

For that matter, I say the same to non-muslim immigrants also. So quick to judge, so slow to contribute, while they reap the rewards sown by the ancestors of their generous hosts.

[Zephyrus]

Many muslims are good guys. But when people 'seek better lives' they should be fixing and building their own countries, not fleeing to successful nations and sponging off those whose ancestors gave their blood and toil to make their nations what they are. I challenge muslims to show us the power of Dar-el-Islam, 'muslim lands', and build them up themselves without sponging off the so-called West.

For that matter, I say the same to non-muslim immigrants also. So quick to judge, so slow to contribute, while they reap the rewards sown by the ancestors of their generous hosts.

QFT. If only those illegal immigrants understood this...

[skag]

Many muslims are good guys. But when people 'seek better lives' they should be fixing and building their own countries, not fleeing to successful nations and sponging off those whose ancestors gave their blood and toil to make their nations what they are. I challenge muslims to show us the power of Dar-el-Islam, 'muslim lands', and build them up themselves without sponging off the so-called West.

For that matter, I say the same to non-muslim immigrants also. So quick to judge, so slow to contribute, while they reap the rewards sown by the ancestors of their generous hosts.

you seems to forgive also, that your "so wealthy country" would not be like that, your country had to be rebuilt after IInd WW. As europeans are lazy, and don't like taking the trash of others away, or build houses, or going into the mines, what do you do ? you call immigrants

Now that you used them well, and they helped you to rebuild your "so beautifull country", you wanna kick them back into their country ??

They gave their blood also for YOUR country ! They have been obligated to fight against the axis during WW II also, but that doesn't matter isnt it ?? they are like ass-cleaners, use them and throw them away ?

[Gumpfendorfer]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
Many muslims are good guys. But when people 'seek better lives' they should be fixing and building their own countries, not fleeing to successful nations and sponging off those whose ancestors gave their blood and toil to make their nations what they are.

Says someone who is stemming from immigrants who treated the original population in a similar manner as the Israeli's are treating Palestinians. The irony in that. No wonder you've been ranting for days now, hardly anything substantial though. Just raw pure tribalism what comes out of you.

[Ishoss]

Replace west with Europe there Besides your post goes under the (wrong) assumption that every muslim immigrate is jihadist ready to spring forth at the command of allah to reign death down on the west....instead of you know (the logical) being someone who is looking for a better, more secure life.

+rep

[Max.]

Right or wrong has little to do with the fact that your moral opponents may disagree (i.e., muslim nations). You can't let hateful people win just by virtue of their hate.

No, the West has little to lose regarding Israel. It's Israeli innocents who have something to lose. The West is losing in a different manner - by allowing tens of millions of muslims to immigrate.

You speak truth. There are 3 fantastic books I have recently read called Londonistan, Celcius 7/7 and While Europe Slept (This one not so good). They are great reads that cover this sort of view accurately and in depth. Amazon them

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

You speak truth. There are 3 fantastic books I have recently read called Londonistan, Celcius 7/7 and While Europe Slept (This one not so good). They are great reads that cover this sort of view accurately and in depth. Amazon them

Nice, balanced reading list you have there, deffinatly gonna get all sides of the argument.

[Zephyrus]

Its kinda obvious by now that the US would rather bleed its citizens and economy dry in order to maintain the expanded military interventions we have in the middle east and in the case of isreal's continued armanent. How long we can do this is the pressing question, without our transactions and funding being questioned by China and russia in unison.

Unless the accounting and money appropriations are being kept secret..:

[Panzerbear]

I dont think it is about all Muslims being jihad monkeys. it is more about major culture clash and... well, I dont want to go there because people would think I am some kind of Nazi .

look at France nowadays. while Europeans slept, there are entire Muslim quarters already. they refuse to integrate into our society. this can (and will) lead to all sorts of social problems. and no, diversity and tolerance classes will not help in this case.

[danzig]

I dont think it is about all Muslims being jihad monkeys. it is more about major culture clash and... well, I dont want to go there because people would think I am some kind of Nazi .

look at France nowadays. while Europeans slept, there are entire Muslim quarters already. they refuse to integrate into our society. this can (and will) lead to all sorts of social problems. and no, diversity and tolerance classes will not help in this case.

Well I come from an american pov where cultural clash isnt so much of an issue as economic class or political so its less an issue for my perspective. Granted I doubt France would love offering goverment forms in 100+ different languages like we do here

[Icefrisco]

The West is losing in a different manner - by allowing tens of millions of muslims to immigrate.

That's not at all true. American Muslims aren't killing western culture. I have yet to meet 1 extremist Muslim. I have only around 5 Muslims in my school but they are all good people and are nothing like the French Muslims who riot in the streets.

[danzig]

That's not at all true. American Muslims aren't killing western culture. I have yet to meet 1 extremist Muslim. I have only around 5 Muslims in my school but they are all good people and are nothing like the French Muslims who riot in the streets.

Well to be fair muslims who do move here tend to be economically better off the exception being Somalia muslims who for whatever reasons despite being poor etc integrate into their community better then their European counterparts. Though there ARE some clashes such as that meat packing company that had a clash between hispanic christians and somalia muslims.