Do states have the right to secede from the U.S.A.?

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Do you think the states within the USA have a right to leave the union, or does the federal government have control of that? Bear in mind, the states freely joined the union, and the states trashed the first federal government (under the Articles of Confederation) and created a new one. During the 1860s, however, the federal government insisted that the states could not leave the union.


Vermont was an independent republic before joining the union, and they joined under the condition that they could leave with a simple 2/3 majority vote of the legislature, much like Texas. However, Texas lost this right after it was re-admitted under Reconstruction.

[Captain Jin]

No. The Federal government has dumped way too much money into most states for any of them to have a reasonable reason to leave the Union. If they did I'd be the first blue jacket to march in and stop them.

[Barry Goldwater]

No, they tried this before (well, some of them did) and failed epically. Besides, why would they? Right now they're better off under the Federal government.
________
Volcano vaporizer

[~Paine~]

No, they tried this before (well, some of them did) and failed epically. Besides, why would they? Right now they're better off under the Federal government.

Not really, the Confederacy completely dominated the Union in the first two years of the war and nearly ended up winning.

I think the reality is that states do not have the "right to secede" but, importantly, there are no terms stating that they have "no right to secede". That may seem confusing, at first glance, but the distinction is important as whilst it may not be explicitly stated that they are allowed to secede, the constitution does not say that they are not allowed not leave.

[Heathen Hammer]

What if its a group of states that wants to leave?

[Gelgoog]

No they do not have the right to leave the union. This is no longer a confederacy of states, where each are bound by a lose coalition. Each state has soverign powers only upto a point. When they joined the union, they lost the right to leave it. Remember its the presidents duty to preserve the union at all costs, which is why we had a civil war

[Ulf]

no state is able to secede from the U.S.A.

However, ideally (to me), each state should possess the ability to secede.

[Playfishpaste]

All states have the right to leave the Union. Duh.

[nce_wht_guy]

Only if they have a VERY good reason.

[Ulf]

Only if they have a VERY good reason.

Who determines what a "very" good reason is? what is a "very" good reason to you?

certainly the election in 1860 of Abraham Lincoln with absolutely no future-seceding states majority vote being for Mr. Lincoln, would seem like a good enough reason for southerners: "well, they can elect a president to rule us (and tax us), without our consent, let's secede!" (this seems an awful lot like 1770's patriotic rhetoric concerning America "seceding" from the British Empire). However the Unionists obviously did not think the same.

[Sidmen]

Genocide against their populace would be a VERY good reason.

[nce_wht_guy]

1) the people
2) The Lives and freedoms of the people in a state being under threat. Thats all the people, not just the rich, land holding white ones.

[Surgeon]

I guess the simplest way to put it is: they can leave if they wish, but if the US army comes after them to get them back they'd better be ready to fight for their independence.

[Captain Jin]

I guess the simplest way to put it is: they can leave if they wish, but if the US army comes after them to get them back they'd better be ready to fight for their independence.

Which wouldn't work too well. I know if Nevada seceded I wouldn't be fighting on their side, that's for sure. People don't have the same idea about states rights that they did back in the Civil War days and before. Sure, I'm proud to be from there but it's much different.

[Sidmen]

I guess the simplest way to put it is: they can leave if they wish, but if the US army comes after them to get them back they'd better be ready to fight for their independence.

It'd be more effective to just surrender and change the state's motto to "The Occupied State".

[roy34543]

if a state managed to seceede it would get massive sympathy simply because many people dont like the US, that being said while a state seceeding would be a major headache for the US as a whole, theres no particular reason a state would want to incur that headache (at least at the moment, it might be different if a state gets a muslim majority for example)

[Sidmen]

if a state managed to seceede it would get massive sympathy simply because many people dont like the US, that being said while a state seceeding would be a major headache for the US as a whole, theres no particular reason a state would want to incur that headache (at least at the moment, it might be different if a state gets a muslim majority for example)

The US has shown time and time again that we don't really care what the world's opinion is, we will enforce our laws and security; and there is no legal way to secede from the union.

[André Masséna]

Which wouldn't work too well. I know if Nevada seceded I wouldn't be fighting on their side, that's for sure. People don't have the same idea about states rights that they did back in the Civil War days and before. Sure, I'm proud to be from there but it's much different.

Maybe that's because Nevada never had any states rights and was only admitted to the union after the secession and subsequent conquest of the Confederate States of America. I'm sure if you lived in a state with a bit of a History of independence (like Texas, any confederate State, or one of the 13 colonies) you might have a different view on the issue.

That being said, no state should secede today without a damn good reason to. They had a damn good one in 1861, but I don't see a good reason to now.

[Fisch]

Yes, but only after a general state referendum. The state government shouldn't be the one to decide, only the people.

[nce_wht_guy]

yes