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  1. #1

    Default Muslim faction of choice

    This is a kind request for your advice...to introduce things:

    I've been playing SS for a while now (switched from BC, which was nice while it lasted). After having played some campaigns up to turn 90-ish, I've pretty much figured out which factions I want to actually finish a campaign / world conquest with (sooner or later).

    My question is: which eastern muslim faction (Egypt, Turks, Khwarezm, Cuman) is to be preferred? They share the same roster...kinda...infantry sucks initially, becomes better as the game progresses (still can't compare to western infantry)...cavalry is great, but often the real shining examples of horsemanship are available a little late in the game.

    So...which one to choose?

    As a bonus, here's the rest of the factions I'll be dominating the world with. All chosen for extremely subjective and irrational reasons. Also note that factions are included in certain regions because it's the part of the world I always conquered first with them in Vanilla. You gotta have some kind of system.

    Europe

    Northern Europe: Denmark
    . Good infantry, bucketloads of fun in siege battles. Scotland's roster is too primitive for my taste. Personal dislike of Norway's starting position.

    Western Europe: England. Good infantry, awesome longbows, stakes, great starting position. Can't stand the pretentious-bastard-voices of the French, Ireland's roster is too tiny (and thus uninteresting). Disclaimer: if Ireland would've just had ONE decent spear unit, I would have played them instead of the English.

    Eastern Europe: Poland. Interesting starting situation, great cavalry, capable infantry if you know how to handle them. The whole 'Jahwel mein Kaiser' thing with the HRE feels too uneasy, Hungary's colours are butt-ugly.

    Southern Europe: Venice. Good money, city builders, crossbows mixed with Venetian infantry. Huge fun during the entire campaign. Iberian Christians lack spear units and overall charm. Jinetes are a dream to fight with, but those alone won't commit me to play an entire campaign. Genoa is Venice without the cool hammer-wielding-über-bastards, so no go for them. Sicily tries to be a jack of all trades in their roster, hence specialising in nothing, hence stays mediocre in my book. Screw the Moors, absolutely uninteresting until after at least 80 turns.

    Other

    Nostalgia: Byzantium. Played...RTW...must...restore...Empire!

    Underdog: Templars. Love a good challenge.

    Steppe: Novgorod. Something about the look and feel of Druzhinas, Boyars and especially Dvors just gives the faction too much potential fun to ignore.

    ===

    But again...as far as muslim factions are concerned, I'm still unable to choose...any help would be extremely welcome.

    (Since faction choice often depends on battle style...my preferred, and ever so cliché one is....(drum roll)....advance light / missile cavalry to flank and take out siege weapons. Do the same with medium (javelin) / heavy cavalry to take out archers, melee cavalry and possibly generals. Repeat until main battle line only has to face spears and swords, with possibly some remains of enemy cavalry. Use remnants of own cavalry to charge the rear. With Cavalry factions, group 1 is numerically superior to group two, vice versa for Infantry factions).

  2. #2

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    My recomandation for you are turks, are the HRE of east.Huge, powerfull, perfect.In my opinion is the only faction who can handle like 1v1 with western factions.All will say to you egipt mameluks are great, persian heve good units and things like that.Turks offer you different archers not like english different technology, but very effective.Janisary units like archers, heavy infantry and muskeeters are very effective.And very important the cavalry is very good and your nafta and cannons are usefull.Now if you patch on Gracul 6.2 some things will not look so good because mongols...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    Turks look good, but the jannissaries (sp?) are available at a relatively late point in the game, meaning that the entire faction looks kinda like glorified militia units imho. A question then becomes:

    Are sipahi lancers, bows and dismounted troops strong enough to hold the line and win some wars until the top notch units can be recruited?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    They can face anyone with their troops.Look at spear units stats.About elite militia no problem is same in catholic powers system.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    I'm currently playing a campaign as the Knights Templar and I've been in an all out war with the Turks for about 50 turns now and it's a HUGE pain in the ass.
    The misile troops are the worst.
    Keep a strong spear center, keep a good mix of horse archers and light cav. and jav. and it's a pain in the ass.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    How viable are the Byzantiens against Western Europe?

    I'm playing a "restore Rome" campaign, just pacified Middle East (except for a Crusade on Baghdad, my city) and am a bit nervous about entering Western Europe...
    I envision a GREEN world! One conquered by Milan, of course.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    In the latest RR the moor's roster is a lot more interesting. Javelins work a lot better too.

    The Byz match up fairly well against western europe. Their top end archers are about as good as longbowmen. Lots of cavalry to choose from, decent pike unit. Varangian's are never a bad thing.

  8. #8
    magraev's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    I'd go for the turks too.

    Good archers already at second tier (turkish archers). Gets even better with Ottoman Infantry at the next level. The best early(ish) infantry is saracen infantry from the cities - very decent spearmen. Cav is dominated by fine horse archer units at lower tiers.

    When you get to the higher levels you'll have to agree: Once you go janissary you cant go back!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    The Cumans are pagan. Pagan!
    "For men can endure to hear others praised only so long as they can severally persuade themselves of their own ability to equal the actions recounted: when this point is passed, envy comes in and with it, incredulity." - Pericles, Funeral Oration

    "English bastards!" - the Scottish AAR!

    The Grass is ALWAYS Greener: the Dark Tale of Mordor

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    @ Sargon, just noticed it in my Novgorord campaign, never knew that actually.

    So, the Turks it will be!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    Another question:

    How come muskets have a smaller range than longbows in SS?

  12. #12
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Staffen View Post
    Another question:

    How come muskets have a smaller range than longbows in SS?
    Because muskets had a shorter range than longbows in real life...at least in the time period covered

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  13. #13

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    As far as I know, muskets had a range of about 200m, even though they only started to get accurate at about 60-70m.

    With medieval longbows having a range of, say, 230 metres MAX, I kinda think the difference in range is too extreme.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    according to this http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~awoodle...y/weapons.html
    the british musket had a straight line flight of 100 yards =91.4 metres
    and an effective range of about double that which is 200 yard=182.8 metres
    if you take into consideration that they took around 30 secs to reload the m2tw muskets seem to
    fire faster and at a shorter distance (most m2tw ranged) weapons seem to fire faster than reality
    this musket variant was used until 1853. so that they were probably firing slightly further than the
    muskets from well 1500 (not sure about this but seems logical) and would be more accurate at
    greater range
    so to sum up I think the distance is ok in m2tw because they roload faster and because at the
    actual max effective range about 1 in 50 bullets would hit wich would be unpractical
    Last edited by lordextra0; January 06, 2009 at 03:02 AM.
    bribery mod compatible with any other mod includes tutorial
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...26#post4174626

  15. #15

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    Thanks for the info!

  16. #16
    Aguirre's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    I really think all muslim factions should be redone. sorry, but if you compare them to the ones i broken crescent...

  17. #17

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    Agree with you mate but BC is BC.I am pretty sure the 7.0 will be redone.I hope I will got enought time and entusiasm to investigate the skins myself.If I enjoy this mod and I can do something for making others happy I will do with pleasure.I hope I will get some time because after 8-10 hours of flash at work is a pain to work with photoshop at home...

  18. #18

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    Next question:

    Is there a separate folder where screenshots end up?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    Mongols all the way

    they just look cool and their heavy lancers rule!

    oh. and of course the fear factor. have you ever seen a chivalrous mongol?
    Last edited by Pink Beard; January 09, 2009 at 11:22 AM.
    E:TW's natives have developed a new "Ballistic Automatic Detection And Seeking System" to utterly annihilate any European that sets foot on their soil... That's BADASS for short!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Muslim faction of choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Beard View Post
    Mongols all the way

    they just look cool and their heavy lancers rule!

    oh. and of course the fear factor. have you ever seen a chivalrous mongol?
    once(ingame)
    was very weard
    I just thought it unlogical so I put ALOT(excact number 27-10 with 8 eyes 10 with 9eyes and 7 with 10 eyes) of assassins on him
    bribery mod compatible with any other mod includes tutorial
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...26#post4174626

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