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  1. #1
    Njord's Avatar Civis
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    Default Changing the Odds.

    Through each campaign you choose, there is always a few nations who without fail succeed, and a few without a doubt who fall and die hideously.

    Now, I've spent the last two campaigns offering my services completely to the survival of two failing nations. I wanted to see what would happen if they became super powers.

    First play through;

    First, I used the Woads to establish a stronghold in Numidias Tingi, to which I fought a duel war with the Scipii for Carthages lands in Africa, while fighting an offensive on the Iberian peninsula. I conquered the Gaul and Spanish lands offering the capture lands to Carthage so that they could rebuild.

    No matter how much I aided with money, or gave land they continuously lost it again to Gaul and the last Spanish army until I eradicated them. They never regained Africa, even through constant Carthaginian uprisings in Carthage or my armies defense of their cities.

    The campaign became a failure when my economy could no longer keep up with the multiple Roman armies and stop Carthage falling to Barbarians.

    Second play through
    ;

    I played a pirate-esque campaign with Pontus, abandoning my original cities and taking the trade islands of Kydonia, Rhodes and Salamis for my new empire.

    My mission? To ensure the success of the Seleucid empire.

    My first turns were tedious, using my time to build up my cities to port and trade level, gaining trade routes and finally obtaining an alliance with Greece after taking Rhodes from them.

    By the time I was ready to go on the offensive the Seleucid had lost Antioch, I marched into their lands taking Sardis and offering it to the Seleucids, 5 years after that Antioch as well, though they refused the gift consistently, I ejected the city, hoping it would rebel to their control again, however it became rebel and would not pass into their hands again.

    I retreated my forces to Salamis for retraining and to link with another army, my goal was now not to take Egyptian lands, but to curb their production facilities by exterminating their population and raising their cities to a militia technology level.

    I launched a two pronged attack, one at Jerusalem. Which took too long, due to the copious amounts of Egyptian armies that where present in the area. The other attack was directed at poorly defended Alexandria.

    In a succession of years, I raised Alexandria, Thebes, Memphis, and Jerusalem, eradicating multiple Egyptian armies with my own chariot archers and Pontic heavy jav cav.

    None of this was enough. My Greek allies and Macedonian trading partners fell to the Brutii and I was forced to pull out of Egypt to restabilize my economy. There was two options, taking the Hellenistic peninsula or attacking the Armenian lands of old Pontus.

    I opted for taking the Brutii on as I needed the trade from Armenia, and the Romans consistently attacked my via navel warfare, not allowing trade at all.

    When I was distracted and fully committed in my war from Kydonia with the pre-marian Brutii and the odd Scipii force, the Seleucid fell to a combination of Armenian and Egyptian sieges. That was a bloody ridiculous waste of time.

    Have you ever been able to keep a failing nation alive? Or have you ever witnessed an unlikely nation become a superpower?

  2. #2
    Xavier Dragnesi's Avatar Esse quam videre
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    Default Re: Changing the Odds.

    I've never tried keeping failing nations alive, but on one campaign as the Parthians, I saw the Dacians gain a massive empire that encompassed all of Germania and most of Gaul. Quite an achievement for them, I think.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Changing the Odds.

    Whenever I have tried to aid opposition factions going by giving them money, land etc they without fail cock it up big time and get beaten in the ened.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Changing the Odds.

    I've tried to do this actually, but the ridiculous thing is the AI barely ever accepts gifts from me! In fact, never has it done so!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Changing the Odds.

    A number of players at Total War Heaven played a game using Scipii. Their goal was to keep Carthage alive and make it a superpower so they could fight a massive campaign in the endgame. I can't find the thread but I think they won in the end after a massive war.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Changing the Odds.

    Have you ever been able to keep a failing nation alive? Or have you ever witnessed an unlikely nation become a superpower?
    It's frustrating. Trying doing it as the Romans. On a mod that lowers your unit stats to make it harder for the Roman player. In addition to that doing it against the Hellenes (Makedonia, Epirus and/or Greece).

    What is really frustrating is seeing the AI using three (bleep)ing units to attack a city... and the city only has one unit as a garrison!

    Or what's worse is the faction you're trying to help...attacks you! (bleep)ing retarded Illyria was down to one or two cities so not only did I take some from Makedonia and gift them to Illyria...I lifted a siege of one of their last cities...

    However, I got stuck in the cities sphere-of-influence and had to wait a turn before leaving...guess what?

    Illyria attacked me the next turn!
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  7. #7
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: Changing the Odds.

    Numidia is a failure in RTW because a) Numidia borders Egypt, who has overpowered chariots in autoresolve, so they can't win b) they border Carthage/Scipii later on, who both have superior units and position, and c) they're provinces are absolute crap. They're roster doesn't help.

    TSE is Egypt's first target, so their dead, plus they're right in the middle of the middle east. They're basically screwed from the game start, which is completely ahistorical. TSE was the largest faction on the map at this point in history.

    You can't really help these guys, seeing as they have many enemies and crappy starting positions.



  8. #8
    SonOfAlexander's Avatar I want his bass!
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    Default Re: Changing the Odds.

    Sorry - Read the one below :S
    Last edited by SonOfAlexander; January 02, 2009 at 01:13 PM.
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  9. #9
    SonOfAlexander's Avatar I want his bass!
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    Default Re: Changing the Odds.

    I was doing a campaign as Pontus and I decided to try and build Numidia high so that in the end it would be just me and them - easy!

    So this is a textbook case of what you are talking about. And, with my persistent help, it was actually starting to work. I would take all african settlements - up to my cities in the sinai peninsula area - and give them to the Numids. I gave them large sums of money and tributes per turn for several years were promised.

    You know how romans often arrive with several very small, annoying little armies? I wa able to bribe each one in turn as they arrived near Carthage for not very long. I blockaded the Romans constantly and they were in a bad way, with many settlemets revolting.

    So you'd think that it was working and it was... but they were unused to the power! They attacked Sidon! Needless to say, I took the whole of Africa in as many turns as it takes to walk from one end to the other, which given the roads they had built with my money, took only about 18 turns (from Alexandria to Tingi). They regretted it...
    Last edited by SonOfAlexander; January 02, 2009 at 01:16 PM.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Changing the Odds.

    errr get a mod or force diplomacy. i recomend xgm.

    what you could do is conquer the territories where the enemy expand before they do and garrison them with 1 unit.

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