What is the difference between the ALF and Al-Qaeda?

[Farnan]

Leadership...

Reading T.E. Lawrence's Revolt in the Desert, I was reading his description of his bodyguard and it struck me as a possible profile on who becomes a fanatical supporter of a movement. The men who were part of Lawrence's bodyguard were men who couldn't function in normal society, they were the outcasts. Lawrence, and his bodyguard unit, provided them with a purpose and most importantly a family. They die and are willing to die for their new family. They are the same people who join cults, religious movements, and make up part of any military.

To further explain, Lawrence's bodyguard was made up of mainly petty criminals and outcasts who had gone from society to society trying to find themselves a place. I then remember Zarqawi was a petty criminal in Jordan before he joined Al-Qaeda, looked up Mohammed Atta and he was a brilliant architect who lacked social skills and was layed off from his job, thus unable to function in society, and I believe the British July 7th bombers were said to be the same way.

What do you think of this?

[Manoflooks]

Makes perfect sense. People who are outcasts try, as you said, to fit in wherever they can. Often this is where they can be controlled, or manipulated. Al Qaeda, of course. They are made to believe that the are doing God's work. I don't know anything about ALF, but being a bodyguard fits that. You are doing the same job as others, trying to protect somebody, and it is a job that calls those type of people because it will generally accept anybody who can do the job.

Most extremist groups call these people because they will accept everyone and not many people who have a great life in society would want to risk so much by joining. And it is made even better because as people with no social skills meet up with others with no social skills and are there for the same reason. It's just that these type of people are those that often join these kind of groups. And in the middle east(which I presume ALF is based in, from the word desert) there is an abundance of extremist groups that go farther that just saying hateful things. And so they presumably go through a lot, and people are bonded by trauma and anything else that incites those types of feelings. Resulting in people who are willing to die to protect one another and to what they believe they must.

[Farnan]

ALF is the Animal Liberation Front, not related to Lawrence of Arabia, rather used it to contrast with Al-Qaeda as another extremist group.

[Manoflooks]

oh. well most of my post was still valid though. how exactly does an animal liberation front warrant comparation to alqaeda? What exactly does it do? Bomb zoos an d bust the animals out?

[Farnan]

oh. well most of my post was still valid though. how exactly does an animal liberation front warrant comparation to alqaeda? What exactly does it do? Bomb zoos an d bust the animals out?

As I said difference is leadership, but still draws the same kind of people, the people who feel society rejected them, reject society or unable to function in society (or at least so they think). I want to chose a group far apart...

[Belphegor]

As I said difference is leadership, but still draws the same kind of people, the people who feel society rejected them, reject society or unable to function in society (or at least so they think). I want to chose a group far apart...

Whoa, now that is an absolute over exaggerration, made my mind stop for a second.

The difference may not be just in the leadership and in the organizational scale, but also about the ideas and values behind each organization. It is almost unthinkable to put these two into the same category.

And honestly I doubt that they attract the same kind of people - terrorist organizations need footsoldiers ordinary mindless fanatized peopelt o serve as their puppets.
ALF on the otherhand has many supporters and active members between intelectuals, third sector people and so on. Also opperates in smaller numbers so rather then taking in anyone.

So for you the people who opperate with the ALF and Al-Qaeda (if it really exists) are of the same kind?

[Lord Consul]

Being a part of a insurgent/terrorist/revolutionary organization requires an extreme form of detachment from those around around that few people ever feel. Gramsci, a Communist intellectual and subversive, wrote that "the revolutionary must have no links outside of the Party, no friends outside of the Party, no objectives other than those of the Party".

For those who have nothing, the Al-Quaedes provides them a new family, a family comprised of people who come from the same place as you, who endure the same hardships as you. The organizations gives status to those who would be nobodies if were not for their condition of members of the organization.

Working with a certain NGO, I once had the opportunity to talk with a former member of the Red Command drug cartel and, talking about his reasons for joining the cartel, he said what I think is the thought that crosses the mind of all those who join a terrorist organization: "I was nobody. Nobody showed me respect. Nobody gave me anything. After I joined, people would bow their heads to me, would call me "sir", would give me gifts in hope of winning my favour."

[Farnan]

Being a part of a insurgent/terrorist/revolutionary organization requires an extreme form of detachment from those around around that few people ever feel. Gramsci, a Communist intellectual and subversive, wrote that "the revolutionary must have no links outside of the Party, no friends outside of the Party, no objectives other than those of the Party".

For those who have nothing, the Al-Quaedes provides them a new family, a family comprised of people who come from the same place as you, who endure the same hardships as you. The organizations gives status to those who would be nobodies if were not for their condition of members of the organization.

Working with a certain NGO, I once had the opportunity to talk with a former member of the Red Command drug cartel and, talking about his reasons for joining the cartel, he said what I think is the thought that crosses the mind of all those who join a terrorist organization: "I was nobody. Nobody showed me respect. Nobody gave me anything. After I joined, people would bow their heads to me, would call me "sir", would give me gifts in hope of winning my favour."

Exactly, all this talk of 72 virgins is disguising the real reason people join these groups.

Along with the fact there are many Non-Muslim extremists groups, and the Christian Heaven is glorious too with special positions for Martyrs.

[Heathen Hammer]

I don't think that Al Qaeda exists at all in a way american media tries to portray it.

[Farnan]

I'm not arguing the power of Al-Qaeda but rather who it recruits from.

[Heathen Hammer]

I'm not arguing the power of Al-Qaeda but rather who it recruits from.

Radical islamists I guess. But it is not a revolutionary organisation. I'd rather compare them to organisations of royalists in France.

[{BHC} King Jan III Sobieski]

I thought ALF was an alien...

J/k.

[Dr. Croccer]

Dutch news posted an interview a while ago, categorizing the Taliban and Al Queda in three groups: Religious fanatics, Nationalists and social outcasts.

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

I think Al-Qaeda's belifes make slightly more sense than ALFs weird campaigns.

[Captain Jin]

Boredom and nothing else to do with yourself is another good reason. Talking with the guys in Zaidon, the 1920s Revolutionary Front in Iraq, a lot of those guys were fighting us and AQ South of Fallujah cause they said they had nothing better to do. No kidding, that's from the horses mouth. A ton of them just said they had nothing to do and it sounded like a good idea.

[Gumpfendorfer]

Boredom and nothing else to do with yourself is another good reason. Talking with the guys in Zaidon, the 1920s Revolutionary Front in Iraq, a lot of those guys were fighting us and AQ South of Fallujah cause they said they had nothing better to do. No kidding, that's from the horses mouth. A ton of them just said they had nothing to do and it sounded like a good idea.

Quite true, me misses always labels them as boys with an itch.

I was nobody. Nobody showed me respect. Nobody gave me anything. After I joined, people would bow their heads to me, would call me "sir", would give me gifts in hope of winning my favour."

That's another important factor: boys who self image is damaged, feeling humiliated. Hence the popularity of Hamas or Hezbollah or US marines or any other armed organisation for that matter. It's not just limited to terror organisations unfortunately. Would speak about it in more general terms.

There is also a biological reason: in the entire existence of mankind only 40% of man have reproduced, women 80%. In other words increase of status via violence is an attractive option, especially for young men with little perspective.

Militancy you find in every ideology, nationalism, religions, ethnic groups and so on. They're all haunted and organized around the mechanics of Tribalism.

[Zephyrus]

Quite true, me misses always labels them as boys with an itch.



That's another important factor: boys who self image is damaged, feeling humiliated. Hence the popularity of Hamas or Hezbollah or US marines or any other armed organisation for that matter. It's not just limited to terror organisations unfortunately. Would speak about it in more general terms.

There is also a biological reason: in the entire existence of mankind only 40% of man have reproduced, women 80%. In other words increase of status via violence is an attractive option, especially for young men with little perspective.

Militancy you find in every ideology, nationalism, religions, ethnic groups and so on. They're all haunted and organized around the mechanics of Tribalism.

Now, how does one break this circle of conflict? How did christianity soften somewhat the fury of our pagan past?