The Domain of Soissons

[Riothamus]

Wanted to separate this this from the corrections thread to make specifically available

Restructructuring the army of Aegidius, The Domain of Soissons

1.Altering the lower tier unit such as the Militia and the Roman Infantry to a Gallic influence and appearance

-Will be adding my ideas in detail later today with the intent on being shaped and altered. Any input on this thread will be appreciated

Pseudo comitatenses available only in Soissons:

adding another Gallic unit and an Alan foederati unit:

Rherel will take on a Gallic elite unit:

-militia cost: will be more expensive to recruit but very much less for upkeep. will take on more of a Romano Gallic appearance
attributes
Roman Infantry Cost: will be more expensive to recruit but very much less for upkeep. will take on more of a Romano Gallic appearance
attributes

[Lioneljoe]

Hi Rio!
Here's some minor ideas:
-Have some message that recognizes when the DoS is the last surviving Roman faction.
- Add victory conditions for Roman Factions: "Rome, Rvenna and Constantinople must be under the control of a Roman Faction"

[Draco Borealis]

Comes Paulus to ilustrius Riothamus rex Britanorum Salutations!

Militia units in Sub Roman Gaul were organised and often led by powerfull catholic bishops who were members of Roman senatorial class so Can they be recruited in church buildings?
Can the country villas the power base of provincial Romanitas be included in starting cities?
How about replacing academies with christian monasteries as the educational buildings?
Can Arianism be added as replacment religion for Goths and Burgunds?
I don't think that any Roman emperor woud be able to change back to paganism in V/VI century when both senate and army became christian, so maybe the pagan roman temples coud be changed to arian churches improving military morale but cousing unrest among the civilians?

[Riothamus]

Hi Rio!
Here's some minor ideas:
-Have some message that recognizes when the DoS is the last surviving Roman faction.
- Add victory conditions for Roman Factions: "Rome, Rvenna and Constantinople must be under the control of a Roman Faction"

Hi Lioneljoe,

-Have some message that recognizes when the DoS is the last surviving Roman faction would be cool :hmmm:

DoS Doesn't have Constantinople as a hold region win condition. Just too difficult to expect that I think:hmmm:

Comes Paulus to ilustrius Riothamus rex Britanorum Salutations!

Militia units in Sub Roman Gaul were organised and often led by powerfull catholic bishops who were members of Roman senatorial class so Can they be recruited in church buildings?
Can the country villas the power base of provincial Romanitas be included in starting cities?
How about replacing academies with christian monasteries as the educational buildings?
Can Arianism be added as replacment religion for Goths and Burgunds?
I don't think that any Roman emperor woud be able to change back to paganism in V/VI century when both senate and army became christian, so maybe the pagan roman temples coud be changed to arian churches improving military morale but cousing unrest among the civilians?

Salutations to Comes Paulus!

Arianism
Christian Arian Heresy trait is applied to them but not as an official religion

Country villas as the power base of provincial Romanitas be included in starting cities I think outside of Soissons might be a good idea. I want to keep Soissons at this time like a tiny administrative Roman enclave.

Roman temples academies with christian monasteries being changed to arian churches is very interesting

[Lioneljoe]

Hi Everyone and Happy New Year!
Like Chess, I have found the DoS fascinating to play with several distinct opening gambits and strategies. However, for each strategy there are key principles that I highly recommend:
- “Give Peace a Chance” Recruit a diplomat and get trade treaties with everyone. The Franks will offer peace and trade on their own. The WRE and the ERE will agree to a ceasefire and to trade. Everyone else is eager to trade in the world economy. Be on the lookout for wandering diplomats from other factions to save time. To save even more time, recruit two diplomats, one to work eastward and one to travel west.
- “Go for a cruise” Build a boat! It’s a useful tool to send a diplomat to the factions in Britain and Ireland. Even better, a seaborne Army gives you the ability to strike provinces up and down the Atlantic cost. Think of the landings in Inchon during Korea. Use the boat and army to capture rebel held provinces along the coast without having to go overland through another faction. Or, if you are really daring, invade Britain and take out the Saxons while they are still vulnerable.
- “Bridge to Nowhere” Build your economic infrastructure. Early on, lots of butter, few guns.
- “Kill Cornelius” Yes, by all means your first military step should be to capture Bourges with your field army. Then reinforce Lemonum to quell any potential unrest.
Franks: The Franks will try to secure peace with you in the west while they build the strength by gobbling up rebel provinces deep into Germania. Hitting the Franks to early can be disastrous. Waiting for the Franks to turn on you after taking Germania is another sure path to the dustbin of history. You do need to take Tournai fairly early in the game to hobble the Franks and here is how I recommend you do it. First, do a seaborne invasion of Campus Friisii (get it while it’s in rebel hands!) to get behind the Franks and limit their expansion east. After you have pacified the settlement load an Army back in to the boat and move down the coast to Vicus Franki. Move another Army into striking distance to Touronni. When set, attack Tournai and Vicus Franki simultaneously. From there move south and take _________. At this point, you may want to sue for peace with the Franks in order to consolidate your gains and turn your attention elsewhere. Continuing the attack my look tempting, but you may end up over extended and broke.
Visigoths: Again the simultaneous multi-settlement strike enabled by a seaboard strike is the best attack. First, take either Portus Victoria Luliobrgensium or Cordoba from the sea while they are in rebel hands. Then position armies to take Salmantica , Tolosa and Burdigala. They should fall easy. From there, however, expect a tough go of it as Visigoth resistance stiffens. The distance between the remaining Visigoth settlements leave your armies vulnerable to ambush.
Admin note: I have been trying to use Print Screen to capture a shot of my empire but every time I do all I get is my computer desktop. Any ideas?

[Riothamus]

Hi Everyone and Happy New Year!
Like Chess, I have found the DoS fascinating to play with several distinct opening gambits and strategies. However, for each strategy there are key principles that I highly recommend:
- “Give Peace a Chance” Recruit a diplomat and get trade treaties with everyone. The Franks will offer peace and trade on their own. The WRE and the ERE will agree to a ceasefire and to trade. Everyone else is eager to trade in the world economy. Be on the lookout for wandering diplomats from other factions to save time. To save even more time, recruit two diplomats, one to work eastward and one to travel west.
- “Go for a cruise” Build a boat! It’s a useful tool to send a diplomat to the factions in Britain and Ireland. Even better, a seaborne Army gives you the ability to strike provinces up and down the Atlantic cost. Think of the landings in Inchon during Korea. Use the boat and army to capture rebel held provinces along the coast without having to go overland through another faction. Or, if you are really daring, invade Britain and take out the Saxons while they are still vulnerable.
- “Bridge to Nowhere” Build your economic infrastructure. Early on, lots of butter, few guns.
- “Kill Cornelius” Yes, by all means your first military step should be to capture Bourges with your field army. Then reinforce Lemonum to quell any potential unrest.
Franks: The Franks will try to secure peace with you in the west while they build the strength by gobbling up rebel provinces deep into Germania. Hitting the Franks to early can be disastrous. Waiting for the Franks to turn on you after taking Germania is another sure path to the dustbin of history. You do need to take Tournai fairly early in the game to hobble the Franks and here is how I recommend you do it. First, do a seaborne invasion of Campus Friisii (get it while it’s in rebel hands!) to get behind the Franks and limit their expansion east. After you have pacified the settlement load an Army back in to the boat and move down the coast to Vicus Franki. Move another Army into striking distance to Touronni. When set, attack Tournai and Vicus Franki simultaneously. From there move south and take _________. At this point, you may want to sue for peace with the Franks in order to consolidate your gains and turn your attention elsewhere. Continuing the attack my look tempting, but you may end up over extended and broke.
Visigoths: Again the simultaneous multi-settlement strike enabled by a seaboard strike is the best attack. First, take either Portus Victoria Luliobrgensium or Cordoba from the sea while they are in rebel hands. Then position armies to take Salmantica , Tolosa and Burdigala. They should fall easy. From there, however, expect a tough go of it as Visigoth resistance stiffens. The distance between the remaining Visigoth settlements leave your armies vulnerable to ambush.
Admin note: I have been trying to use Print Screen to capture a shot of my empire but every time I do all I get is my computer desktop. Any ideas?

Wow Lioneljoe! This is very well thought out and put. Nice job

What are your difficulty settings? Are You playing H/H settings?

The taking of Britain is interesting. The British islands economic structure is much weaker compared to the other provinces in the game thus a risk if you want to try and control it.. The Celts will certainly have something to say abut it for they will invade the pic lands and swoop down all of Britain especially if the Saxon are no longer a threat.

I recommend you use Fraps to take pictures

http://www.fraps.com/

[Turkeys!]

I recommend you use Fraps to take pictures

http://www.fraps.com/

[Lioneljoe]

Hi Rio,
Thnaks! I will down load the "fraps" program to see if ic an get some snaps. Yes, taking Britain was a "what the heck" moment. Orignally I was there just to take out the Saxons. Only later did I take over both Roman Britsh factions. If I didn't, the Celts would have anyway.
I'm using the M/M settings. I'm not ready to move up until I can master a game at an easier level. I'm no Rio.
The thing is though, no matter what strategy I employ I always seem to ge to the same place: Expansive empire but very broke. My last game I took out the Franks, Saxons and both Roman Brtish factions. However, I was - 138,000 down and loosing 22,000 a turn and the Burgundi, flush with cash after taking out the WRE set their sights on me. I just can get it to the next level... yet.

[Riothamus]

Hi Rio,
Thnaks! I will down load the "fraps" program to see if ic an get some snaps. Yes, taking Britain was a "what the heck" moment. Orignally I was there just to take out the Saxons. Only later did I take over both Roman Britsh factions. If I didn't, the Celts would have anyway.
I'm using the M/M settings. I'm not ready to move up until I can master a game at an easier level. I'm no Rio.
The thing is though, no matter what strategy I employ I always seem to ge to the same place: Expansive empire but very broke. My last game I took out the Franks, Saxons and both Roman Brtish factions. However, I was - 138,000 down and loosing 22,000 a turn and the Burgundi, flush with cash after taking out the WRE set their sights on me. I just can get it to the next level... yet.

Hi Lioneljoe,

OK..See if I can add a little something to why that happens. Playing the Roman factions the more lands you conquered does not always equate to to automatic economic gain,... well, not at first anyway. There's a fine line to conquest and economic disaster if your not careful to build up those newly acquired lands before moving on to newer conquests. It can be quite a strain on your econ if you move to quickly. The conquered provinces need to be economically 'Romanized' for a lack of a better term. And remember you get an important Rex ancillary for economically romanizing a barbarian, Nomad or Sassanid capital

I think its very wise to first play the game on M/M to get a feel of the needed economical and military strategy needed to become successful. Capital cities yield tremendous profit but also they can be extremely rebellious causing headaches. Deploying and using certain units is also very important, and having an idea of how much certain units up keeps are vital. There are many such nuisances to the game and It takes time to get used to them.

I also encourage players not to feel the need totally ascribe to playing out the game in fanatic historical fashion..as how the Romans may have done so sort of speak. I think its wise to be open to be resilient and creative and maybe think in a way that may have benefited the Romans. I don't think approaching the game that is unhistorical necessarily means it is not historical. To me its just thinking maybe in way the Romans could have but did not. This is off course up to the players prerogative with the ultimate goal of achieving Beyond Roman Glory.

Even Riothamus met disaster on the battle field.. lol

[seriousbusiness]

I don't like the idea of a message with the DoS (or any other Roman faction) being the last Roman faction. Soissons slightly outlived the WRE but I don't think it is really necessary. Let's focus on balance. I think Aegidius could have easily outfitted Pseudo comitatenses in his holdings and maybe full Comitatenses in Soissons itself. That way even though most of your forces would be foederati you could keep some professional forces for the most important manouvers. Also, reduce the penalty at Lemonum. Sometimes you lose it and there is little you can do. Thanks, whoever suggested the 2 diplomat strategy. At only 50 or 100 upkeep, the trade bonus from trade rights with even only 1 or 2 factions quickly offsets the cost. I also think the Limitinei should have a slightly better defence stat to make up for the cost because they are useless right now. Maybe enable foederati spearmen since they are cheap and tactically useful in shield wall (cheaper than foot nobles for that purpose if you like that tactic)

What it really comes down to for this mod is fine tuning the economic system and adjusting it to make it more fun (but still realistic, eg Pseudos idea). I really think the foederati upkeep should be lower to make it easier to consolidate but still have a defensive force.

I actually find conquering Britain is one of the better strats for Soissons because the trade bonus for owning the settlements (and Romanising them) offsets the penalty for going to war in the longer term, if you can pull it off without endangering your Gallic holdings too much. Some of the Frankish provinces are really poor, so beyond taking Tournai and then getting a ceasefire/trade and playing defensively to focus on Britain, getting bogged down in Germany can be bad for your long term interests. Always garrison Lemonum and Bourges generously to stave off a Visigoth invasion.

[Lioneljoe]

I don't like the idea of a message with the DoS (or any other Roman faction) being the last Roman faction. Soissons slightly outlived the WRE but I don't think it is really necessary. Let's focus on balance. I think Aegidius could have easily outfitted Pseudo comitatenses in his holdings and maybe full Comitatenses in Soissons itself. That way even though most of your forces would be foederati you could keep some professional forces for the most important manouvers. Also, reduce the penalty at Lemonum. Sometimes you lose it and there is little you can do. Thanks, whoever suggested the 2 diplomat strategy. At only 50 or 100 upkeep, the trade bonus from trade rights with even only 1 or 2 factions quickly offsets the cost. I also think the Limitinei should have a slightly better defence stat to make up for the cost because they are useless right now. Maybe enable foederati spearmen since they are cheap and tactically useful in shield wall (cheaper than foot nobles for that purpose if you like that tactic)

What it really comes down to for this mod is fine tuning the economic system and adjusting it to make it more fun (but still realistic, eg Pseudos idea). I really think the foederati upkeep should be lower to make it easier to consolidate but still have a defensive force.

I actually find conquering Britain is one of the better strats for Soissons because the trade bonus for owning the settlements (and Romanising them) offsets the penalty for going to war in the longer term, if you can pull it off without endangering your Gallic holdings too much. Some of the Frankish provinces are really poor, so beyond taking Tournai and then getting a ceasefire/trade and playing defensively to focus on Britain, getting bogged down in Germany can be bad for your long term interests. Always garrison Lemonum and Bourges generously to stave off a Visigoth invasion.

Hey Serious Business,
Your dead on from my experience. Its easy to jump the channel once you take Tourani. I wouldn't go too deep in Britain though. Just take the area around Londinium. Your right about the Visagoths. They are also very resilant and tough to take out even after taking Tolouse and Burgandi (sp).
Rio: Your killing me with the plagues!! I had two differant cities go to He_ _ within a few turns of each other. Maybe it needs to shift back a bit in the direction back to playability?

[Riothamus]

Hey Serious Business,
Your dead on from my experience. Its easy to jump the channel once you take Tourani. I wouldn't go too deep in Britain though. Just take the area around Londinium. Your right about the Visagoths. They are also very resilant and tough to take out even after taking Tolouse and Burgandi (sp).
Rio: Your killing me with the plagues!! I had two differant cities go to He_ _ within a few turns of each other. Maybe it needs to shift back a bit in the direction back to playability?

Sorry about da plagues Lioneljoe

I'll take a look for ya

[seriousbusiness]

Getting a plauge at Soissons or another important economic city will more or less cause you to lose in a few turns. Making them shorter (2 or 3 turns) and at least less frequent would help.

Also, I think academies should stay. It was not until after the collapse of the WRE that the church started taking on educational responsibilities and probably for some time acadamies continued alongside monasteries as educational institutions. It was probably not until well into the 6th century that the church took those roles. The 'authenic' Roman factions (WRE, ERE, DoS) should keep academies, but monasteries sounds like a reasonable possibility for some other factions.

[Riothamus]

Also, I think academies should stay. It was not until after the collapse of the WRE that the church started taking on educational responsibilities and probably for some time acadamies continued alongside monasteries as educational institutions. It was probably not until well into the 6th century that the church took those roles. The 'authenic' Roman factions (WRE, ERE, DoS) should keep academies, but monasteries sounds like a reasonable possibility for some other factions.

Hi seriousbusiness,

-With the new army economic structure in place a plague will certainly hurt the faction Domain of Soissons but it will not kill it as a plague should.

Also, I think academies should stay. It was not until after the collapse of the WRE that the church started taking on educational responsibilities and probably for some time acadamies continued alongside monasteries as educational institutions. It was probably not until well into the 6th century that the church took those roles. The 'authenic' Roman factions (WRE, ERE, DoS) should keep academies, but monasteries sounds like a reasonable possibility for some other factions.

Good argument...Agree with this.

Comes Paulus to ilustrius Riothamus rex Britanorum Salutations!

Militia units in Sub Roman Gaul were organised and often led by powerfull catholic bishops who were members of Roman senatorial class so Can they be recruited in church buildings?
Can the country villas the power base of provincial Romanitas be included in starting cities?
How about replacing academies with christian monasteries as the educational buildings?
Can Arianism be added as replacment religion for Goths and Burgunds?
I don't think that any Roman emperor woud be able to change back to paganism in V/VI century when both senate and army became christian, so maybe the pagan roman temples coud be changed to arian churches improving military morale but cousing unrest among the civilians?

Wanted to repost Draco Borealis ideas here

read this some time ago. The continued dissemination of knowledge through the dark ages
How the Irish Saved Civilization

http://www.allaboutirish.com/library...rev-saved.shtm

[PSEUDO ROMANUS]

I love the way Draco Borealis starts his posts

[Riothamus]

I love the way Draco Borealis starts his posts

Quite a dramatic flair about it

[PSEUDO ROMANUS]

Quite a dramatic flair about it

Much more gracious than my "hey...", that's for sure .

[Lioneljoe]

I played a few more rounds of DoS and tried a more aggressive opening strategy by going after the Franks and Burgundis immediately. I reduced both of them to one province each, cleared the Roman-Britains out of Gaul. I even ventured into southern Britain taking the area around Stone Henge and Londinium.
Even the money is coming in. However, I always seem to hit a wall when I reach this point.
Question:
Does the game environment or AI behavior change or evolve in the game in response to your successes or failures?
Unrest seems to increase in cites over the long term even though I build the “happy buildings.” Is there a recommended building strategy for newly conquered cities? Do you go for economic trade buildings, or culture (Roman Statua/column/ Triumph)?
Do the Franks have the ability to hoard?
I tried the game as the WRE. They seem to have the hardest starting conditions economically However, they have a powerful leader in Ricimer and his Army. Does anyone have a recommended opening strategy for the WRE?
Do Rebel armies and fleets have a major impact on trade?
Has anyone met the victory conditions yet for a Roman Faction? If so care to share your strategy and insights?
Thanks

[margio]

I played a few more rounds of DoS and tried a more aggressive opening strategy by going after the Franks and Burgundis immediately. I reduced both of them to one province each, cleared the Roman-Britains out of Gaul. I even ventured into southern Britain taking the area around Stone Henge and Londinium. Even the money is coming in. However, I always seem to hit a wall when I reach this point.

Hi Lioneljoe, should be nice and interesting to see images of your DoS campaign …

Does the game environment or AI behavior change or evolve in the game in response to your successes or failures?

I feel that proceeding in my campaigns the behaviour of the closest factions seems to change, because I noticed increase of spies "looking" in my towns, "neutral" armies leaded by own family member "walking" in my lands, presence of assassin. Furthemrore even the raise of rebels armies, with more units, increases… I don’t know if that is due to my conquests, failures or/and my strategies changes, but that is what I noticed…

Unrest seems to increase in cites over the long term even though I build the “happy buildings.” Is there a recommended building strategy for newly conquered cities? Do you go for economic trade buildings, or culture (Roman Statua/column/ Triumph)?

It depends on which culture/buildings you find in the newly captured towns, mainly for the religion. I noticed that finding Christian churches in captured town avoid unhappy people and let you start for economy, but if there are different happiness and law buildings (academy for example as barbarians if you are roman) it can give unhappiness on long terms. Furthermore exterminating population can reduce unhappiness due to capture, but it is also true that decrease points of your general… So usually for newly captured towns I mix law, economy, happiness, health, culture and so on for each turn; anyway closely looking to the town panel to chose which building is needed.

Do the Franks have the ability to hoard?

I don’t think. I never played Franks, but they do not have Horde units, as Saxons, Vandals, Burgundi, Lombards, Ostrogoths have.

I tried the game as the WRE. They seem to have the hardest starting conditions economically However, they have a powerful leader in Ricimer and his Army. Does anyone have a recommended opening strategy for the WRE?

You are right. Probably WRE is the hardest faction at the beginning, or anyway one of the hardest, but for this reason one of the most challenging … There is no a recommended opening strategy, just suggestions from my side… I think that your success with DoS can be a right base to start from and I know that others players employed successful strategies for their WRE or Romans campaigns…
From my WRE I left Arles, Carnuntum and Curla, destroying all possible buildings and disbanding units. I know that it seems a cheat, but at the beginning WRE needs every single cents. It’s a choice, but I got a starting treasury of about 25.000 coins… Then for 10/12 turns I built only for economy mainly, mixing with law and happiness, keeping a defensive strategy only, enlisting diplomats, to open trade roads with all factions, and spies, to guard my borders.
Not exciting, but useful on long terms…

Do Rebel armies and fleets have a major impact on trade?

Leaving rebels around a the end damage the income of the closer town

Has anyone met the victory conditions yet for a Roman Faction? If so care to share your strategy and insights?

I think that no one had time to meet the Victory Conditions... You know… there is a Patch Machine walking around here …


I hope to find you soon in the "post your empires/kingdoms here" ...

Ayeaye Sir

[Lioneljoe]

Ok, using Fraps I took a happy snap of my DoS empire. What format do I need to save it too to post it here? Margio. Thanks for the great write up! I will post more when I get the time.