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    Default Proposed Factions Rebellions and Scripting

    Herein we discuss and propose scripted rebellions...


    FACTION-SPECIFIC REBELLIONS

    TBD


    'GENERIC' REBELLIONS

    1. Jewish Rebellion
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Hebrew: המרד הגדול‎, ha-Mered Ha-Gadol), was the first of three major rebellions by the Jews of Iudaea Province against the Roman Empire (the second was the Kitos War in 115117; the third was Bar Kokhba's revolt, 132135).
    It began in the year 66, stemming from Greek and Jewish religious tension.[1] It ended when legions under Titus besieged and destroyed Jerusalem, looted and burned Herod's Temple (in the year 70) and Jewish strongholds (notably Gamla in 67 and Masada in 73), and enslaved or massacred a large part of the Jewish population.
    The defeat of the Jewish revolts by the Roman Empire substantially altered the Jewish diaspora, as many Jews were scattered or sold into slavery after losing their state.
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    [hide]

    [edit] First Jewish successes

    According to Josephus, the revolt, which began at Caesarea in 66, was provoked by Greeks sacrificing birds in front of a local synagogue.[2] The Greek-speaking Roman garrison did not intercede. In an act of defiance, the son of Kohen Gadol (High priest) Eliezar ben Hanania ceased prayers and sacrifices for the Roman Emperor at the Temple and subsequently led a successful attack on the Roman garrison stationed in Jerusalem. The pro-Roman king Agrippa II and his sister Berenice fled Jerusalem to Galilee, where later they gave themselves up to the Romans. Cestius Gallus, the legate of Syria, brought reinforcements to restore order, but was soundly defeated at the Battle of Beth Horon. While retreating, Legio XII Fulminata even lost its aquila.

    [edit] The fall

    Emperor Nero appointed general Vespasian instead of Gallus to crush the rebellion. Vespasian made Caesarea Maritima his headquarters and with his legions — among them X Fretensis and V Macedonica, 60,000 professional soldiers — methodically cleared the coast and the North. Some towns gave up without a fight. By the year 68, Jewish resistance in the North had been crushed.
    The leaders of the collapsed Northern revolt, John of Giscala and Simon Bar Giora, managed to escape to Jerusalem. Brutal civil war erupted: the Zealots and Sicarii executed anyone advocating surrender, and by 68 the entire leadership of the southern revolt was dead, all killed by the Jews, none by the Romans.
    After the death of Nero and with the backing of the army, Vespasian was proclaimed emperor in 69 and left for Rome to take the throne from Vitellius in a brief Roman civil war, the so-called Year of the four emperors.

    [edit] The fall of Jerusalem

    Main article: Siege of Jerusalem (70)
    The siege of Jerusalem, the capital city, had begun early in the war, but had turned into a stalemate. Unable to breach the city's defenses, the Roman armies established a permanent camp just outside the city, digging a trench around the circumference of its walls and building a wall as high as the city walls themselves around Jerusalem. Anyone caught in the trench attempting to flee the city would be captured, crucified, and placed in lines on top of the dirt wall facing into Jerusalem.The two Zealot leaders, John of Gischala and Simon Bar Giora only ceased hostilities and joined forces to defend the city when the Romans began to construct ramparts for the siege. Tens of thousands of crucified bodies encircled Jerusalem by the end of the siege. [3]
    Titus Flavius, Vespasian's son, led the final assault and siege of Jerusalem. During the infighting inside the city walls, a stockpiled supply of dry food was intentionally burned by Jewish leaders to induce the defenders to fight against the siege instead of negotiating peace; as a result many city dwellers and soldiers died of starvation during the siege. Zealots under Eleazar ben Simon held the Temple, Sicarii led by Simon Bar Giora held the upper city. Titus eventually wiped out the last remnants of Jewish resistance.

    The treasures of Jerusalem (detail from the Arch of Titus).


    By the summer of 70, the Romans had breached the walls of Jerusalem, ransacking and burning nearly the entire city. The Romans began by attacking the weakest spot which was the third wall. It was built shortly before the siege so it did not have as much time invested in its protection. They succeeded towards the end of May and shortly afterwards broke through the more important second wall. The Second Temple was destroyed on Tisha B'Av (July 29 or July 30), 70. Tacitus, a historian of the time, notes that those who were besieged in Jerusalem amounted to no fewer than six hundred thousand, that men and women alike and every age engaged in armed resistance, everyone who could pick up a weapon did, both sexes showed equal determination, preferring death to a life that involved expulsion from their country.[citation needed] All three walls were destroyed and in turn so was the Temple. John of Giscala surrendered at Agrippa II's fortress of Jotaphta and was sentenced to life imprisonment. The famous Arch of Titus still stands in Rome: it depicts Roman legionaries carrying off the Temple of Jerusalem's treasuries, including the menorah.

    [edit] The fall of Masada

    Main article: Masada

    Remnants of one of several legionary camps at Masada in Israel, just outside the circumvallation wall which can be seen at the bottom of the image.


    During the spring of 71, Titus set sail for Rome. A new military governor was then appointed from Rome, Lucilius Bassus, whose assigned task was to undertake the "mopping-up" operations in Judaea. He used X Fretensis to oppose the few remaining fortresses that still resisted. Bassus took Herodium, and then crossed the Jordan to capture the fortress of Machaerus on the shore of the Dead Sea. Due to illness, Bassus did not live to complete his mission. Lucius Flavius Silva replaced him, and moved against the last Jewish stronghold, Masada, in the autumn of 72. He used Legio X, auxiliary troops, and thousands of Jewish prisoners,[citation needed] for a total of 10,000 soldiers. After his orders for surrender were rejected, Silva established several base camps and circumvallated the fortress. According to Josephus, when the Romans finally broke through the walls of this citadel in 73, they discovered that the 967 defenders had all committed suicide, prefering death over defeat.

    [edit] The outcome


    A coin issued by the rebels in 68, note Paleo-Hebrew alphabet. Obverse: "Shekel, Israel. Year 3". Reverse: "Jerusalem the Holy"


    Josephus claims that 1,100,000 people were killed during the siege, of which a majority were Jewish.[4] 97,000 were captured and enslaved.[5] Many fled to areas around the Mediterranean.
    The Romans hunted down and slaughtered entire clans, such as descendants of the House of David.[citation needed] On one occasion, Titus condemned 2,500 Jews to fight with wild beasts in the amphitheatre of Caesarea in celebration of his brother Domitian's birthday.

    An ancient Roman coin. The inscription reads IVDAEA CAPTA. The coins inscribed Ivdaea Capta (Judea Captured) were issued throughout the Empire in order to demonstrate the futility of possible future rebellions. Judea was represented by a crying woman.



    Roman denarius depicting Titus, c. 79. The reverse commemorates his triumph in the Judaean wars, representing a Jewish captive kneeling in front of a trophy of arms.


    The Jewish Encyclopedia article on the Hebrew Alphabet states: "Not until the revolts against Nero and against Hadrian did the Jews return to the use of the old Hebrew script on their coins, which they did from similar motives to those which had governed them two or three centuries previously; both times, it is true, only for a brief period."[6]
    Titus reportedly refused to accept a wreath of victory, as there is "no merit in vanquishing people forsaken by their own God".[7]
    Before Vespasian's departure, the Pharisaic sage and Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai obtained his permission to establish a Judaic school at Yavne. Zakkai was smuggled away from Jerusalem in a coffin by his students. Later this school has become a major center of Talmudic study. (See Mishnah)

    [edit] Sources

    The main account of the revolt comes from Josephus, the former Jewish commander of Galilee who was captured by the Romans and forced to witness and record the events of the revolt.[citation needed] Josephus had been granted citizenship and a pension in Rome and was well accepted at the courts of Vespasian, Titus and Domitian.[citation needed]
    His popular works The Wars of the Jews (c. 79) and Jewish Antiquities (c. 94) — especially its autobiographical appendix — are frequently contradictory.[citation needed] He was loathed by the Jews as a turncoat and Roman apologist and never returned to his homeland after the fall of Jerusalem, living in Rome as an historian under the patronage of Flavius and Titus.[citation needed]


    #2
    Armies of the rebellion

    Not clear on how many units can be taken from the city of Jerusalem.
    I would say if we do this, the rebellion could start off with
    4 or five stacks of units. That should be plenty to start.
    To compare with the legions of Romans that are there. If the player or A1 decides to be there.
    Is there a script for the roman army to influence other states?
    Is that called the loyalty script?
    I still feel Rome should be a very powerful faction. and not easily conquered by the player, or the A1, even played in med/med stats.
    We should stay in some bounds to history if we allow scripts.


    #3 Units. ( this will be updated with pics. )

    We have two Jewish units.
    1. Mercenary slingers. Jewish
    2 Mercenary Jewish spearmen
    I would suggest to give a better look of slaves.
    using the Arab / eastern units.
    From swordsman, to spearman, and archers.
    also the lowest roman unit types to give the impression of captured roman weapons.
    Last edited by cherryfunk; December 29, 2008 at 04:40 PM.

    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

  2. #2
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    Would it be possible for a fort to be scripted onto the campaign map, kind of simulating Masada?:hmmm:

  3. #3

    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    That would be cool!
    Or a happiness card to bring in moral.

    updated # 1
    Last edited by swhunter; December 28, 2008 at 04:57 PM.

    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    swhunter, can you put the detailed info in spoiler tags? That will come in handy later but first we need a list of rebellions that might fit for various parts of the map and various factions...

    EDIT: made some changes to your original post...
    Last edited by cherryfunk; December 29, 2008 at 04:41 PM.



  5. #5

    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    Quote Originally Posted by cherryfunk View Post
    swhunter, can you put the detailed info in spoiler tags? That will come in handy later but first we need a list of rebellions that might fit for various parts of the map and various factions...

    EDIT: made some changes to your original post...
    Thank you Cherry!
    I need all the help i can get!

    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

  6. #6
    Ketchup's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    I don't know if this is even still being worked into the mod but, seeing as though a lot of players will be playing Rome (I suspect), we could make it a bit harder after they conquer Gaul.

    The Ambiorix/Vercingetorix Revolt. It was quite a major revolt in the Belgae area after Caesar had supposedly conquered them. It happened historically in 54 BC although, in the game could it be scripted to happen a random number of turns (say 5-15) after the player captures a certain Belgic province? Perhaps just spawn a couple of "free gallic" stacks in the area and have named chracters (Ambriorix and Vercingetorix) lead them.
    Last edited by Ketchup; January 04, 2009 at 09:46 AM.

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    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    Good idea.

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    What specific triggers are possible for launching a script?



  9. #9
    HouseOfHam's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio Caesar View Post
    Would it be possible for a fort to be scripted onto the campaign map, kind of simulating Masada?:hmmm:
    I'm afraid not.

    Quote Originally Posted by cherryfunk View Post
    What specific triggers are possible for launching a script?
    If you're asking what events and conditions can be used, anything that can be used for triggers.

    For the full list, see http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Rt...ad/BI_docs.zip - docudemon_events.txt and docudemon_conditions.txt

    For example, for the imperial revolt, we could trigger rebellions based on when the faction leader is in Rome and a special imperial reform marker building has been constructed there.

    - Add a special imperial reform marker building in EDB
    - Add a hidden ImperialAge trait with 2 levels. 1st level to trigger the rebellions, and 2nd to stop them from happening again

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Code:
    Trait ImperialAge
        Characters family
        Hidden
    
        Level Imperial_Age_Begins
            Description Imperial_Age_Begins_desc
            EffectsDescription Imperial_Age_Begins_effects_desc
            Threshold 1
    
        Level Imperial_Age
            Description Imperial_Age_desc
            EffectsDescription Imperial_Age_effects_desc
            Threshold 2
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    ; Trigger rebellions for romans. Similar triggers can be added for other factions.
    Trigger ImperialAgeTrigger1
        WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    
        Condition FactionType romans
               and IsFactionLeader
               and SettlementName Rome
               and SettlementBuildingExists = imperial_marker
    
       Affects ImperialAge  1  Chance  100
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    ; Prevent rebellions from happening more than once.
     Trigger ImperialAgeTrigger2
        WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart
    
        Condition Trait ImperialAge = 1
    
        Affects ImperialAge  1  Chance  100
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    ; Propagate the trait to other characters of this faction, so rebellions don't happen again when the emperor dies.
    Trigger ImperialAgeTrigger3
          WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
     
         Condition FactionLeaderTrait ImperialAge > 0
                and not IsFactionLeader
                and Trait ImperialAge < 2
      
          Affects ImperialAge 2  Chance  100


    The script would then check the trait to determine when it's time to spawn the rebel armies:
    Code:
    monitor_event CharacterTurnStart Trait ImperialAge = 1
        ; spawn rebel armies
    end_monitor
    Alternatively, we could use the script to spawn the marker building automatically, based on the number of regions controlled by the player faction, or controlling specific settlements, or anything else...

    Code:
    monitor_event GeneralCaptureSettlement TrueCondition
    
        if FactionType romans
        and I_NumberOfSettlements romans = 50
        and I_SettlementOwner Rome = romans
        and not SettlementBuildingExists Rome imperial_marker
            console_command create_building Rome imperial_marker
        end_if
    
    end_monitor
    For historical revolts, rebel armies can be spawned based on the current year/turn number.
    Last edited by HouseOfHam; January 04, 2009 at 03:38 PM.
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  10. #10
    aja5191's Avatar TWC Bearcat
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    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    And the Socii rebellion too, if maybe hte average happiness in Central Italy drops below about 70%?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    hmmm... how about approximating Vercengetorix's rebellion against Rome, or the Illyrian revolt, Batavian Revolt, or perhaps, even The Year of the Four Emperors?
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    Ketchup's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    Here are a few more that I can think of:

    The Betrayal of Arminius (AD 4)

    Originally trained as a Roman officer, when Arminius was sent back to his homeland (in command of some Germanic auxillaries) to extend the Roman territories in Germania (east of the Rhine that is) he did the opposite, betraying the Romans and kicking them back across the Rhine. This could be reflected by spawning an army of Germanic cohors auxillia under the command of Arminius a random number of turns after (3-10?) the player takes a certain settlement on the East side of the Rhine.

    Boudica's Revolt (Ad 60)

    Queen of the Iceni revolts in Britain routing a Roman Legion etc. Again, perhaps a spawned army after a random number of turns of occupying British settlements.

    Celtiberian Rebellions (194BC/149BC)

    This represents a variety of Celtiberian revolts against Roman rule. The first happened in 194 BC but was relativel small scale. The main one was led by Viriathus in 149 BC and was actually quite a major rebellion. Again, perhaps a couple of spawned armies when the player conquers certain Iberian settlements would do the trick.

    These are all rebellions against Rome and assume the player is playing Rome. Anyway, it's up to you guys which, if any, you want to implement.

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ketchup View Post
    Here are a few more that I can think of:

    The Betrayal of Arminius (AD 4)

    Originally trained as a Roman officer, when Arminius was sent back to his homeland (in command of some Germanic auxillaries) to extend the Roman territories in Germania (east of the Rhine that is) he did the opposite, betraying the Romans and kicking them back across the Rhine. This could be reflected by spawning an army of Germanic cohors auxillia under the command of Arminius a random number of turns after (3-10?) the player takes a certain settlement on the East side of the Rhine.

    Boudica's Revolt (Ad 60)

    Queen of the Iceni revolts in Britain routing a Roman Legion etc. Again, perhaps a spawned army after a random number of turns of occupying British settlements.

    Celtiberian Rebellions (194BC/149BC)

    This represents a variety of Celtiberian revolts against Roman rule. The first happened in 194 BC but was relativel small scale. The main one was led by Viriathus in 149 BC and was actually quite a major rebellion. Again, perhaps a couple of spawned armies when the player conquers certain Iberian settlements would do the trick.

    These are all rebellions against Rome and assume the player is playing Rome. Anyway, it's up to you guys which, if any, you want to implement.
    Dude, Arminius was 9 AD - Teutoburger Wald WAS Arminius' Betrayal...

    but i did forget about Boudicca. Remember, we can't tie them to dates, because that'd handicap the player, but we can tie them with scripts with conditions that historically caused them, but the player will have to create said circumstances in their campaigns - you might get lucky and not suffer Arminius' revolt, for example, due to circumstances in the campaign...
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    aja5191's Avatar TWC Bearcat
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    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    So we come upon the crux of the issue with scripted rebellions and such.

    We have to ignore the actions and the impact of the rebellion and just look at it from an anthropological standpoint - we need to look at what TRIGGERED the rebellion/uprising/etc.

  15. #15
    Ketchup's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    Yes I agree. Most of the rebellions I've noted above have happened simply because the people being ruled didn't like it and wanted to do something about it. These are quite simple to provide triggers for (IMO - bare in mind I might be totally wrong). You would simply make the trigger "When X faction controls Y region for 5 turns, spawn 2 rebel armies" Obviously it would have to be in "scripting language" but I think it is possible with scripts, no?

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    Carthage fought the mercenary war (due to disputes about pay following the first punic war) in around 240BC. What about triggering a second mercenary war in Italy if Carthage gains Rome, sort of representing a similar issue? It could trigger a whole stack or few of Libyans, Celts and Iberian troops.

    "Your mercenary troops have become disaffected as a result of your unfilled promises to pay them promptly" or something like that.


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  17. #17

    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    doing it by turn number shackles the player, and may be completely irrelevant to their campaign - the world in their campaign in 150 BC may be totally different from the way it was in real life, since we know how random the strat AI can be in RTW...
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    Quote Originally Posted by rory o'kane View Post
    doing it by turn number shackles the player, and may be completely irrelevant to their campaign - the world in their campaign in 150 BC may be totally different from the way it was in real life, since we know how random the strat AI can be in RTW...
    I agree -- I'd rather that no rebellions be tied to a specific year, but rather to events that unfold organic to the campaign... at most we might have some events tied to a random year -- say, at some point between 100BC and 50BC a Saka invasion comes along; can we do random year events?



  19. #19
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    Quote Originally Posted by cherryfunk View Post
    I agree -- I'd rather that no rebellions be tied to a specific year, but rather to events that unfold organic to the campaign... at most we might have some events tied to a random year -- say, at some point between 100BC and 50BC a Saka invasion comes along; can we do random year events?
    I agree as well....specific years don't mean anything...since there IS no specific year.

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  20. #20
    Ketchup's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Proposed Factions Rebellions

    That's a good point. HOH, is it possible to trigger a spawned army after a town is occupied by, say the Romans?

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