Scottish Independence?

[MekongFisher]

So as far as I am concerned, this whole Scottish independence thingy is becoming a huge thing in Edinburgh nowadays. Of course, Scottish Independence Party is now the largest party in Scottish Parliament, making the parties that are polar opposite in policies to band up together to oppose just the independence itself. And the polls seem to say that every year, there are more and more Scots who want to break out of the union and carve another republic for themselves.

What do the actual Britons and Europeans, who are probably more aware of the contemporary situation than me, think about the whole notion? As an irrelevant observor, I personally find it a bit difficult to take seriously, but on the other hand, as a history geek, the idea of historic Celtic nation north of England, constantly bickering with London coming back to the present world would definitely make papers far more interesting to read. So, what are the opinions from actual English, Scots, Irish, and any other Europeans, for that matter?

[Calamari]

As an Englishman, I think its a load of rubbish. We are stronger together than apart so why seperate? I realy don't understand this whole "Govorn ourselves" lark. The same mentality stopping the EU or UN having more power which could be put to good use but instead are hell bent on us remaining isolated. What is the point?

I do like to see all sides of the argument but I realy think that a split would hurt all parties involved.

Any scot feel free to enlighten me because I realy don't understand.

[6th Vigil]

Well, obviously it's te French paying the Scots to leave therefore weaken the United Kingdom and force it to bow down to the wishes of the European Union. Curse the Auld alliance......

/joke off.

I too, as an englishman, find it hard to understand their reasoning to independence but I will not condemn them for it. I can only say that i think it would certainly be worse off for Scotland than for the rest of the UK but Scotland would probably remain a first-world nation. I think we are far too entwined to ever lose that relationship between us with or without a union.

[James Cook]

I too, as an englishman, find it hard to understand their reasoning to independence but I will not condemn them for it. I can only say that i think it would certainly be worse off for Scotland than for the rest of the UK but Scotland would probably remain a first-world nation. I think we are far too entwined to ever lose that relationship between us with or without a union.

For some years ago my ship were in aberdeen scotland were I talked about the issue with a scot in a pub and his opinion on the matter were that he were convinced that it would never happens bacause it would leave scotland in an economical situation slightley worse than if they did remain with
the UK.
My own pov is that if they think they can manege on there own then why not.
Iam a dane my self and we have some teritorys in the N atlantic Faroe island and greenland and both are talking of independence from denmark.
fine by me, I say
As the situatin is now both contrys recive Economical help from denmark
in order to funcion an maintaine a high living standart, and in some talks
between the goverments they demand that the danes keeps on paying
money too them well after they are granted independence.
but in that case I refuse
But enough of the danes, as I said before if they can manage on there own
then why not

[MaximiIian]

Independence? Like, as a separate republic?
no. At least not yet.

The best thing to do is make Britain more federal, like Canada or Australia. Scotland gets its autonomy (not merely devolution) and Britain stays Britain. Everybody wins.

'Cept the dolts who want a republican system of government. Then again, if they want that, they should've jumped ship with the Scots-Irish.

[Kscott]

Well with the EU getting stronger and stronger independence makes more and more sense. If you think about it, the U.K is kinda like a more local, centralized European Union. I know that this is sort of a stretch, but I mean very loosely.

Anyways, the point remains that the main argument for keeping the U.K together is that it makes everyone involved better off. As the E.U continues to gain power, this reasoning makes less and less sense. So why not have a state for ones nation?

Personally, as an American with a Scottish surname and mostly Scottish ancestory, I look favorably to an independent Scotland. To me it would be a source of great cultural pride for Scotland to be standing up on its own feet again. I can't count the times I have heard my fellows say they thought that Britain=England or British=English. I can't count the times I have heard Scotland is basically England's . With independence Scotland gains a new respect on the international arena.

Of course, I realize my opinion does not matter and I do not hold any pretenses on hoping to influence any person who actually lives there. Independence is a huge decision and something that should be thought upon very carefully by those actually involved. All types of things such as economics should be considered. So while I could never actually have a true opinion on the issue, I at least would like to see Scotland independent. Whether that is practical, wanted, or at all reasonable is for others to decide.

And I know that you called for actual English/Scottish opinions, I couldn't help but throw my lot in.

btw, another interesting factor would be what would happen to Northern Ireland? I mean the whole reason they are part of U.K and not Ireland is because so many of them have Scottish descent. I wonder if there would be a movement within Northern Ireland to unite with Scotland, or maybe just a final acceptance to unite with Ireland?

[MekongFisher]

And I know that you called for actual English/Scottish opinions, I couldn't help but throw my lot in.

btw, another interesting factor would be what would happen to Northern Ireland? I mean the whole reason they are part of U.K and not Ireland is because so many of them have Scottish descent. I wonder if there would be a movement within Northern Ireland to unite with Scotland, or maybe just a final acceptance to unite with Ireland?

No, no, no, please feel free. Anyone's opinion is valued.

I actually think that in near or long future, Ulster might be united with rest of Ireland peacefully. Protestant Unionist population has been declining for decades steadily, but Catholic nationalist population never seems to stop growing (power of Guiness over reproductive desire?). What used to be about 70% Protestants, 30% Catholics at beginning of Troubles is now 55% Protestants and 45% Catholics. At this rate, just a popular vote will suffice to put Ulster into the Republic soon enough.

[Ardruire Iacób]

At this rate, just a popular vote will suffice to put Ulster into the Republic soon enough.

A third of Ulster is already in the Republic. You know, the province of which Northern Ireland is only two-thirds?

A can't see Scots nationalism really keeping its momentum. It'll probably fade away once the economy gets back on track. It's nice that so many prominent Scots nationalists don't actually live in Scotland, too.

[Copperknickers II]

Reality aside, a lot of people don't seem to understand why we want independance. The fact is, although we have Gordon Brown (a Scot in charge of England) and the Royal heritage, we are not our own country. We have a very strong national pride. For Americans, say, what would you feel like if you had to call some bloke living in London you Prime minister, and Elizabeth II your queen? Even if you had federal power, is that really the way you would want to be? We are strong willed and nationalistic, and England although our ally, is not our friend. We are a different country, and we are tired of being ruled from London. William Wallace and Bruce spent 200 years fighting for us against invading English, and we are not ready to give up.

[6th Vigil]

Anyways, the point remains that the main argument for keeping the U.K together is that it makes everyone involved better off. As the E.U continues to gain power, this reasoning makes less and less sense. So why not have a state for ones nation?

:hmmm:i kinda saw this the other way around. If the prime purpose of the EU is to unify the European continent then surely the United Kingdom is a union that contributes to that aim. Seperating the UK into smaller nations would hinder the intergration process. Indeed, the only thing that the break up of the UK would achieve, in European politics, would be to strengthen the Franco-German domination of the EU.

Personally, as an American with a Scottish surname and mostly Scottish ancestory, I look favorably to an independent Scotland. To me it would be a source of great cultural pride for Scotland to be standing up on its own feet again.

I also have a Scottish surname and ancestry but having been raised in England this doesn't affect my attitude to the union nor Scottish independence.

I can't count the times I have heard my fellows say they thought that Britain=England or British=English. I can't count the times I have heard Scotland is basically England's .

Thats more due to ignorance than actual reality as i find it hard to see Scotland being England's when there is a scots PM and the amount of money they recieve due to the Barnett formula. British=English thing works against us as many people conveniently forget the Scots, and Welsh, when mentioning massacres and other colonial atrocities. The way some people describe colonial times you would think that Scotland was also a victim of England rather than actually being a partner, albeit a smaller one.

With independence Scotland gains a new respect on the international arena.

Or instead of just being, apparently, England's it would be everyone's especially the EU's.

Of course, I realize my opinion does not matter and I do not hold any pretenses on hoping to influence any person who actually lives there.

Of course your opinion is welcome it's often refreshing to hear an outside opinion on matters and sometimes they reveal problems; e.g. the Scotland being percieved as England's .

btw, another interesting factor would be what would happen to Northern Ireland? I mean the whole reason they are part of U.K and not Ireland is because so many of them have Scottish descent. I wonder if there would be a movement within Northern Ireland to unite with Scotland, or maybe just a final acceptance to unite with Ireland?

I believe that NI would join the rest of Ireland, eventually, if Scotland was to become independent. NI joining Scotland just doesn't seem realistic to me but then that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen.

[MaximiIian]

I have heard Scotland is basically England's .

Ehh...not quite. Especially now that Scotland has its own parliamentary body.

And even when Scotland didn't have its own parliament before the late 1990's, it had (and has) MP's in the British Parliament, meaning it had (and has) national representation. There has been Scottish PM's before (like there is now).

And, perhaps most importantly, the current monarchs are of Scottish descent. Even their German ancestry is partly Scottish due to the Stuarts marrying into the Hanoverian in the 1690's (hence why the Hanoverians got the throne in the first place). And before the Stuarts were the Tudors, of Welsh heritage.
There hasn't been an English monarch of true English descent since the House of York, really. So it's been England that has been the .

[VALIS]

I SUPPORT Independence for Scotland!

[Father Jack]

I support the idea of Scotlands independance and I am sure that they can potencially do very well out of the EU. However it is not something to rush into due to the fact that there has been a close bond between the two kingdoms (Scotland & England) for over 300 years and also because of the current economic crisis. For the next 10 years or so it may be more prudent for the union to remain strongly intact to face the economic crisi together or risk losing a great deal more if the Union was broken.

[hellheaven1987]

Freeeeeedoooooom!!!!!!







...............






We are not discussing Braveheart am I right??:hmmm:

[Copperknickers II]

As a Scot, i can say that if we separate now, Scotland will be a little backwater in the north with no global influence. As a proud country, im not sure we can stand the fall from global Number one a hundred years ago, to nothing. No FREEEEDDOOOOOMMMMM!!!!! yet, but maybe once Britain has sorted out a few of its problems with debts. Noone is pretending it will be complete independance, we will still be very reliant on Britain, but i think we will continue to strive for it.

[imb39]

I'd let Scotland go, personally. If they want it so bad, let them go.

Actually, to be fair, I don't think the independence movement is as strong as the OP might think. The latest financial meltdown demonstrated that Scotland is too small to cope on its own when there is a problem.

As others have said we are far stronger together but should they go they condemn England to Tory rule but we keep our money. Qid Pro Quo, or something like that.

And I am waiting for some Scot to go on ad nauseum about oil money etc. The fact is that England has subsidised Scotland for a considerable amount of time. They get a disproportionate amount of MPs and, quite frankly, would be a shadow of their current selves if it wasn't for the Union. Scotland has done very handedly out of it, especially as it went bankrupt and that triggered the Act of union. I am not bitter about it, but I do resent the constant moaning from the likes of the fish head, Alex Salmond. Odious man.

[Denny Crane!]

I'd let Scotland go, personally. If they want it so bad, let them go.

Actually, to be fair, I don't think the independence movement is as strong as the OP might think. The latest financial meltdown demonstrated that Scotland is too small to cope on its own when there is a problem.

It has proved that Scottish people percieve they are to small to cope when there is a problem of this magnitude.

[Ardruire Iacób]

Thats the spirit!!

I think they should vote or something about it.
If they want to be independent than they should be able to have it.

They are able to have it. Referendum, anyone?

It has proved that Scottish people percieve they are to small to cope when there is a problem of this magnitude.

In fairness, Ireland survived the Great Depression. Why would Scotland be unable to deal with the Recession?

[Denny Crane!]

They are able to have it. Referendum, anyone?



In fairness, Ireland survived the Great Depression. Why would Scotland be unable to deal with the Recession?

All I pointed out was a flawed arguement, I see no evidence why Scotland would not have survived this recession I firmly believe it would benefit from seccession but it is certainly true that scottish people percieve themselves as gaining security from their participation in the union in times of recession.

[Ardruire Iacób]

All I pointed out was a flawed arguement, I see no evidence why Scotland would not have survived this recession I firmly believe it would benefit from seccession but it is certainly true that scottish people percieve themselves as gaining security from their participation in the union in times of recession.

It might not have been clear, but I was agreeing with you. Smaller, weaker nations have survived tougher economic conditions.