Will BC 1.5 allow travel across Arabia?

[adam4000000]

Will this issue be addressed? It's very frustrating to have to travel along the outsides of the peninsula.

[Atatürk]

Will this issue be addressed? It's very frustrating to have to travel along the outsides of the peninsula.

It's the same reason you can't travel along the Sahara Desert. In Total War you can't travel across desert for realistic reasons.

[HunterKiller]

the desert of arabia is called "the empty quarter", why? cuz its as deadly as the venom, any one goes there, is either killed by the sun, heat or thirst, no living being can go through this desert !!

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

expecpt those desprate for oil.

[GABRIELVS ANGELVS]

If it's really annoying you... why not use a ship?

[The Noble Lord]

In order to portray it more realistic it should be like this: some units will be able to travel through the interior of the Arabian peninsula and some wont. Like some desert units on camels would be perfectly able to travel up and down the Arabian desert and units like Byzantine heavy infantry for example wont be able or some other European like units.
Not like it is at the moment, nobody can travel through the interior.

[adam4000000]

You guys are ignorant. It is a fact that arab armies could travel across the penisula. In fact, there were cities such as Buradah and Riyadh which are in the middle of Arabia! The empty quarter doesn't describe all of Arabia!!! That's why its called the "Empty QUARTER" its only the lower quarter of Arabia.

GOSH!!!

[Dead*Man*Wilson]

You guys are ignorant. It is a fact that arab armies could travel across the penisula. In fact, there were cities such as Buradah and Riyadh which are in the middle of Arabia! The empty quarter doesn't describe all of Arabia!!! That's why its called the "Empty QUARTER" its only the lower quarter of Arabia.

GOSH!!!

who you callin 'ignorant' noobie?!


Seriously though... welcome to TWC, but refrain from namecalling or a moderator will spank you....noobie!

[HunterKiller]

You guys are ignorant. In fact, there were cities such as Buradah and Riyadh which are in the middle of Arabia!

actually, riyadh isn't so old city from the medieval era, it was established around 1860s, came from reclamations of desert land, if u had a look at the population from 1862:

1862 ----->7,500
1935 --->30,000
2008 ----->5,100,000

it wasn't at the medieval age, cuz no body was able to cross arabia.

[viskarenvisla]

Okay look.

Crossing the desert is -not- that different from crossing Alaska. You just need a sled and like, dogs. Short haired dogs, like...Labradors or something. >.> Maybe like, lots and lots of Basenjis or Salukis to help.

[Garbarsardar]

You guys are ignorant. It is a fact that arab armies could travel across the penisula. In fact, there were cities such as Buradah and Riyadh which are in the middle of Arabia! The empty quarter doesn't describe all of Arabia!!! That's why its called the "Empty QUARTER" its only the lower quarter of Arabia.

GOSH!!!

Indeed. However this game's engine does not permit restriction of marching ability to specific units. An ERE army of Varangians and Katafractoi heading for Muscat through the desert does not sound very realistic.

Okay look.

Crossing the desert is -not- that different from crossing Alaska. You just need a sled and like, dogs. Short haired dogs, like...Labradors or something. >.> Maybe like, lots and lots of Basenjis or Salukis to help.

These dogs are 6-7 feet high and we call them for shortness, "camels".

[adam4000000]

Alright. So I agree that there are problems with allowing travel through Arabia. But can't there be just at least one path through the center? Could that ghost city (Buradah) be activated? What I've been doing is using the move_character cheat to get armies to Buradah, but only a few of the Abbassid generals work with the cheat.
Please put a trail in the middle of Arabia. ?

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

about the risctrtio nof the movement you put traits for some factions that will rescrit there movement on some kind of terrian like what was in FKOC.

[HunterKiller]

Alright. So I agree that there are problems with allowing travel through Arabia. But can't there be just at least one path through the center? Could that ghost city (Buradah) be activated? What I've been doing is using the move_character cheat to get armies to Buradah, but only a few of the Abbassid generals work with the cheat.
Please put a trail in the middle of Arabia. ?

OMG dude why do i have to chase you? lol XD

ok, buradah, which supposed to be "buraidah" is older than riyadh yes yes but it was established in 980 by hegry date "muslim dating or moon dating", 980 hegry equales 1563 AD, the storry of finding the well there is by some dudes fleeing from war to desert then they found it accedently, if u need details i can explain but it doesn't worth it trust me, any way, there were no cities nor villages inside the arabian desert and thats it, no body knew what was in the desert cuz whoever gets in, never gets back. but after buraidah and riyad, its much easier now, "also ppl now get inside the arabia with land cruisers and land rovers ;P"

and i say it again:
NO ONE WAS ABLE TO GO INSIDE THE ARABIA,, or at least thinked of.... XD

[adam4000000]

Take a look at this link about ancient Arabia, Hunter Killer. It proves you are wrong. Not only does it show that the Arabs were able to travel through the middle of Arabia, but it shows a settlement in Arabia.

And that's word to al-yaMAMA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Muslim_Conquest.PNG

[Faris ad Din]

adam4000000, first I am not speaking with any position either way. I just recognize you are new to these forums and TWCenter.net in general. There definitely have been many discussions about the creation of the impassable terrain - some discussions right from the beginning of the mod's history and every so often afterwards. Not to criticize but new forum participants could have searched for and found these previous discussions via the Search feature on the forums. When I was new, and I had a question, I always made sure to search first, sometimes I searched ten, fifteen attempts with different keywords before I posted my own question. Half the time the answer was already said months before, buried in the forums, but still there and useful nonetheless.

Read:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=147201 "That big empty desert!!"

Especially read:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=155866 "some suggestions/questions about Arabia, Qaraqum..."

What RESULTED is that in nearly every discussion the Broken Crescent team's and the community's consensus is that the Arabian Desert, as well as the Karakum Desert for that matter are incredibly hard for sizable armies to pass. Forget about bringing troops over the Himalayas into Tibet.

If you actually visit these places, travel in the arid wilderness for three days, especially by camel or horse (don't you dare try on foot), by all means come back to us vindicated by your experiences. "I TREKKED THE NEFUD DESERT!"

Did you happen to watch "Lawrence of Arabia"? It is not the best historical source but it makes some salient points.

Lawrence of Arabia on YouTube: Part 7 of 26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvaS4...eature=related

Lawrence of Arabia on YouTube: Part 8 of 26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpa3l...eature=related

Lawrence of Arabia on YouTube: Part 9 of 26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMX0W...eature=related





From: http://greatamericanmovies.com/lawrence.html (If the photos above start to receive too much traffic I'll download them and host them from Photobucket.)

What I've been doing is using the move_character cheat to get armies to Buradah, but only a few of the Abbassid generals work with the cheat.

Every general can be accessed but not every general's name matches how they appear. "Caliph Al-Mustansir the Magnificent" or "King Baldwin the Saint" are not immediately usable as Al-Mustansir the_Magnificent, or Baldwin the_Saint. You have to look up their family names and there are specific tricks and rules you have to follow to find their console-usable name.

Please put a trail in the middle of Arabia. ?

That's not very hard to mod, and if you wish, and given a little spare time in my hectic schedule these holidays I'll edit out every single impassable tile on the map for you. I've done it before on the main M2:TW map, but I did something like keep the impassable regions in tiles with a passable wilderness grid so as to reduce the probability those annoying heretics, witches and brigands spawn there and increase heresy and devastation.

about the risctrtio nof the movement you put traits for some factions that will rescrit there movement on some kind of terrian like what was in FKOC.

Where did you find this feature, in what mod? This possibility is very interesting.

[adam4000000]

Faris ad-Din, you made some interesting points, but you failed to address some points. I looked at the videos, and they clearly show armies traveling across the Arabian deserts, which proves my point, not yours. There have always been numerous cities in the interior of Arabia. If there are cities in the interior of Arabia, then there are ways in which people can travel there. I don't care about Alexander. Arab generals in the seventh century were able to cross the deserts of Arabia very easily. You didn't address al-Yamama. I don't understand why you believe no one could ever travel through the middle of Arabia. It's like you believe the Earth is flat and I'm trying to tell you its round.

[Faris ad Din]

Thank you for the concise and polite answer. I DO actually agree with you. Camel armies should be able to cross deserts. If it were possible for an extra expense - 'Hire Camel Train' to supply an army's trek across the deserts it should be possible. Bedouins traverse the terrain all the time. So do merchants and caravans from the western Sahara to the Gobi Desert.

The earth is indeed round - Eratosthenes knew this in the 6th century BC when he quite accurately measured the circumference of the Earth (flat surfaces don't have 'circumferences'!) as did Arab geographers and astronomers long before Columbus. (By the way, the Portuguese court didn't reject Columbus because they didn't believe the Earth was flat, they thought that he calculated the Earth's circumference too SMALL - they thought it was too large to sail around in a small caravel which it was. He misinterpreted as Roman miles, the Arab miles which are three times as long.) But besides the digression...

It was a very conscious decision on behalf of the Broken Crescent team to make these regions impassable. They simply perceived it as harder to cross and inhabit than you think, perhaps. It could come down to a question of DEGREE of perception. When it comes down to a developer's point of view, one would not want heavy Jerusalem armies, elephant Rajput armies, armor-heavy Abbasid armies to routinely cross the interior of Arabia every single turn. It'd be quite strange to see the interior of Arabia and Karakum supporting dozens of full-stack armies, non-camel ones too. That being said you can enter some ways into it and make roundabout trips through present-day Jordan to get from the Red Sea to Mesopotamia while avoiding the Holy Land, for example.

If you like, I can show you how to edit impassable terrain out of the map, and I may have a little extra time to do it for you. I think it affects past the maps in saved games too (but I cannot guarantee that if you replay from those saves the results can't be drastically different).

[Dewy]

Thank you for the concise and polite answer. I DO actually agree with you. Camel armies should be able to cross deserts. If it were possible for an extra expense - 'Hire Camel Train' to supply an army's trek across the deserts it should be possible. Bedouins traverse the terrain all the time. So do merchants and caravans from the western Sahara to the Gobi Desert.

The earth is indeed round - Eratosthenes knew this in the 6th century BC when he quite accurately measured the circumference of the Earth (flat surfaces don't have 'circumferences'!) as did Arab geographers and astronomers long before Columbus. (By the way, the Portuguese court didn't reject Columbus because they didn't believe the Earth was flat, they thought that he calculated the Earth's circumference too SMALL - they thought it was too large to sail around in a small caravel which it was. He misinterpreted as Roman miles, the Arab miles which are three times as long.) But besides the digression...

It was a very conscious decision on behalf of the Broken Crescent team to make these regions impassable. They simply perceived it as harder to cross and inhabit than you think, perhaps. It could come down to a question of DEGREE of perception. When it comes down to a developer's point of view, one would not want heavy Jerusalem armies, elephant Rajput armies, armor-heavy Abbasid armies to routinely cross the interior of Arabia every single turn. It'd be quite strange to see the interior of Arabia and Karakum supporting dozens of full-stack armies, non-camel ones too. That being said you can enter some ways into it and make roundabout trips through present-day Jordan to get from the Red Sea to Mesopotamia while avoiding the Holy Land, for example.

If you like, I can show you how to edit impassable terrain out of the map, and I may have a little extra time to do it for you. I think it affects past the maps in saved games too (but I cannot guarantee that if you replay from those saves the results can't be drastically different).

Anyone notice that faris in most of his poats says he has no time, but yet read his posts sounds like he has time. Faris if you have no time why do you keep saying i'll do it for you but i have hardly any time? you sound like a women .

Its fine the way it is i think, becuase if its not impassable, heavy armoured troops will go through it.

[Otsman]

yeah, don't argue with Faris


he'll find 100 more ways to kill you with rhetoric and long posts