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Thread: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

  1. #1
    Hesus de bodemloze's Avatar The Gaul
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    Default SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    This is a guide that will explain you on how to survive the first 15 steps of SPQR 7. It will help you to set up your economie, telling you what to build first to gain a realy nice amount of denarii. It also will explain what battle tactics i use to defeat Hannibal and Theopanes as well on how to defeat the gauls that will come in full force the first few turns. It is possible to defeat Hannibal you just need to use the correct legion, it is possible to defeat 3 to 4 gaul armies with one legions but you need to take them one by one.

    *note the amount of denarii in turn 2 and 3 arn' t realy correct becous i forgot to list them, i added this so you could see how much money you can earn every time.

    Turn one :

    Start capital
    : 5000 denarii

    - put all taxes of your city' s except capua on the highest there is to get a maximum incom.
    - build mines in Arretium (mine building will take 2 turns)
    - destroy the auxillary barracks in Messana (you will recover 400 denarii)
    - send your fleet that is stationed in capua to Messana (we ar going to get the garrison out of Messana the next turn becous we will need them in capua)
    - build a wooden palisade in genua (if a gaul armie attacks genua thy can not take it right away)
    - send the 5 Hestati, 1 slinger and velite that are stationed in Arretium to Genua
    - move Vibius to the spot on the pciture below, this is a nice position to get fast at Genua, Arretium and Arminium



    - move Flavius and quintus to there locations as shown on the picture.



    - move Quintus just over the border of calabria (do not go to far becous you should retreat if theophanes attacks you do the same if hannibal attacks Flavius)
    - 2400 denarii will remain

    * important note : Quintus needs to destroy Hannibal and Flavius should destroy Theophanes

    END TURN

    Turn two :

    Start capital
    : 5095 denarii

    - put the garrison of Messena on the ships and move them to Capua (don' t recruit new garrison here, you need to retake Messena when you invade sicilia)
    - build a governor palace in capua
    - if there is still money left you should build wooden palisade in Arretium and arminium
    - Theophanes will now be stationed before Flavius, attack him
    - Afther your victory over Hannibal and Theophanes move Quintus and Flavius to Taras and siege it. (do not siege it before the 2 carthaginian armies are destroyed!!!)
    - 95 denarii will remain

    END TURN

    Turn three :

    Start capital : between 5968 and 8000 denarii

    - build mines in Reghion
    - build roads in : Arretium, Arminium, Genua, Paestum, Beneventum
    - move one town watch and velites from Beneventum to Capua
    - use Vibius to attack any gaul armie that enters Roman territory
    - move the garrison that is on the ships and let them enter Capua
    - set the taxes in Capua to the highest level
    - 1092 denarii will remain

    END TURN

    Trun four :

    Start capital : 9984 denarii

    - attack the gaul armie that moves to Genua or Arminium
    - build wooden wall in Genua
    - build roads in Arretium
    - build trader in : Armonium, Asculum, Beneventum, Paestum
    - optinal : retrain Hastati (i retrain my legions only in italie)
    - 5122 denarii will remain if you chose to retrain Hastatii ( this guide will follow the retrainment program of my campaign)


    END TURN

    Turn five :

    Start capital
    : 15027 denarii

    -
    Carthaginians try to lift the siege of taras (try to destroy the city' s garrison if thy attempt to lift the siege)
    - build trader in : Arretium
    - build ports in : Arminium, Asculum, Beneventum, Paestum
    - retrain Hastati Quintus Legion
    - 11307 denarii will remain

    * important note :
    if you take Taras see what to do in turn eight

    END TURN

    Turn six :

    Start capital
    : 23230 denarii

    - build stables in Beneventum
    - build practice range in Paestum
    - build paved roads in : Arretium, Asculum, Reghion, Arminium
    - 11080 denarii will remain

    END TURN

    Turn seven :

    Start capital
    : 23217 denarii

    - build paved roads in Paestum
    - 18030 denarii will remain

    END TURN

    Turn eight :

    Start capital
    : 34494 denarii

    - fight siege of Taras if your attempt to destroy the garrison failed when thy tried to lift the siege
    - retrain hestati that sieged taras in taras
    - build Governor palace in Taras
    - recruit 4 town watch in Taras
    - if there are 3 to 4 legions in the surroundings of Genua attack them with Vibius (attack the once that have no family member*)
    - 28139 denarii will remain

    * important note : if you attck the gaul armies whitout family members and destroy like 2 out of the 4 armies the other won' t attack you the next turn

    END TURN

    Turn nine :

    Start capital
    : 43597 denarii

    - build paved roads in : Beneventum
    - buid trader in : Genua, Reghion
    - build port in : Genua, Reghion, Arretium
    - build market in : Arminium, Asculum, Peastum
    - retrain cavalerie units in Beneventum (quintus legion)
    - retrain missile units in Peastum (quintus legion)
    - move Flavius to Capua
    - recruit 2 more town watch in Taras
    - 32548 denarii will remain

    END TURN

    Trun ten :

    Start capital
    : 46768 denarii

    - build provincial barracks in Capua
    - build road in : Capua
    - build trader in : Capua
    - build port in : Capua
    - build market in : Arretium, Beneventum, Reghion
    - 38069 denarii will remain

    END TURN

    Turn eleven :

    Start capital
    : 52809 denarii

    - recruit 2 cavalery units in Beneventum
    - recruit 2 slingers and 2 velites in Paestum
    - recruit general and five hestati in capua
    -
    move Vibius to Capua to retrain the legion
    - build land clearance in : Arminium, Asculum
    - build wooden palisade in : Peastum
    - build paved roads in : Taras
    - build market in : Genua
    - 43733 denarii will remain

    END TURN

    Turn twelve :

    Start capital
    : 57187 denarii

    - retrain both Quintus and Flavius legions in Capua (one at a time)
    - move Vibius to Capua
    - build practice range in : Genua
    - build land clearance in : Arretium, Paestum
    - build a shrine in : Arminium
    - build communal farming in : Asculum
    - build market in : Taras
    - 48255 denarii will remain

    END TURN

    Turn thirteen :

    Start capital :61712 denarii

    - remove retrained armie out of Capua and move it to the borders with gaul
    - retrain the other legions that are at Capua
    - build shrine in : Arretium
    - build land clearance in : Beneventum
    - build communal farming in : Paestum
    - build wooden palisade in : Reghion
    - build tempel in : Arminium
    - 55025 denarii will remain

    END TURN

    Turn fourteen :

    Start capital
    : 66846 denarii

    - retrain legion Vibius
    - remove the retrained legion and move it to the borders with gaul
    - build paved roads in : Capua
    - build market in : Capua
    - build governors palace in : Asculum
    - build wooden palisade in : Beneventum
    - build shrine in : Reghion
    - build sewers in : Arretium
    - build tempel in : Arretium
    - 53005 denarii will remain

    END TURN

    Turn fifteen :

    Start capital
    : 64746 denarii

    - send Vibius to the border with gaul
    - recruit 5 principes ( add them the next turn to the general and other units that you created a few turns earlier)
    - recruit 3 triarii ( add them the next turn to the general and other units that you created a few turns earlier)
    - next turn move the newly recruited armie to the borders with gaul

    This guide wil end here, your italian border are secured now.

    Good luck with your game, don' t forget to save the game at important points like when you will start fighting an other armie becous you probebly will need to try over a few times when you attempt to fight hannibal.
    Don' t forget to laod your script if you play with it.

    My battle tactics against Hannibal and Theophanes.


    - I try to use every adavantage there is on the battlefield so keep a look out for roacks or high places that you can use in your advantage.
    - Keeping an eye on enemies movement is important as well, you need to react as fast as possible on there movements doing this with the right choice of units.


    This is the formation i use to fight carthage.

    - The most important thing is to turn off skirmish mode and fire at will mod for velite, these units are used to kill elephants so thy need all there ammo for doing this.
    - Set hastati and principes to fire at will mode so thy will first throw there pilums to the enemie, this makes extra victims.
    - I always put hastati, principes and triarii on guard mode, by doing this there strenght will be spared so thy won' t get exhausted that fast.

    The battle begins.
    - Carthaginian cavalery and elephants will try to flank you, there light units (iberian infantery) will try and do the same, move one unit of triarii to each flank to defend against cavalery use a unit of principes to support them against iberian infantery.
    - The iberian infantery, cavalery and elephants will try to overrun your line of hastati first.
    - The main line of the carthaginian armie will attack your first line of hastati, when the line starts to bow you can send in your principes to support the line of hastati.
    - You should reinforce your flanks fasther then the middle part of the line bcous your flanks will suffer more pressure of the the attackers.
    - use your velites to kill the elephants as fast as thy get in range.
    - Send one of your cavalery units to the other flank, use both of yout cavalery units to make a half circling movement to attack there missile units.
    - Do this as soon as all carthaginian units are in a fight with your first line or on the flanks.
    - At this time there cavalery should have attackt your flanks and you should have encountered them with your triarii
    - When the cavalery is defeated use those triarii to flank the carthaginian line.
    - Send your slinger to the flanks and let them fire there missiles in the carthaginian flanks.
    - If your killed all missile units with your cavalery use them to kill large units of routing troops. (if thy have 100 or more men in them thy are large)
    - Why should i do this? If thy have retreated thy will reorganize becous of there still lare number afhter reorganizing thy will take part of the battle again.
    - The carhaginian armie should have taken a lot of victims at this stage of the battle and all of its units will be exhausted.
    - Turn of guard mode of your hastati, principes and triari.
    - Use your cavalery to charge wavering units. (best start at the flanks)
    - Use hastati, principes and triari to help the rest of the armie in a clean up action, move from one flank to the other. (this depends in which flank you started your cavalery charge)


    Plan of assault.

    Roman units :

    H = Hastati, put on guard mode and fire at will mode
    P = Principes, put on guard mode and fire at will mode
    T = Triarii, put on guard mode
    S = Slingers, turn off fire at will mode
    V = Velites, turn off skirmish and fire at will mode
    G = General
    E = Equitas

    Carthaginian units :

    II = Iberian Infantry
    P = Poeni infantry
    L = Libyan infantry
    C = Cavalery
    ELE = Elephants
    A = Archers
    SK = Skirmishers
    G = General


    Victory over Hannibal.

    My battle tactics agains Gauls.

    My battle deployment and tactics arn' t really so different from the once i use against Carthage, so this will become a very short description of how to use your legions against the gauls.

    The only 2 differences there are, is the fact that i don' t put my velites in to blocks between my triarii, i stretch them in to a line and place them behinde the principes and in front of triarii units, i turn off the skirmish mode but leave the fire at will mode. When the battle is in full force i will turn off the fire at will mode and let the trow there javalins at points where the most gauls are.
    And i put all Hastati, principes and triarii in shieldwall formation, this is the best way to fight barbarians, barbarians are more spread in there units so if you don' t use shieldwall thy could more easaly move between your ranks. when using the shieldwall you will prevent this.

    for the rest the movement in battle and the use of units is almost the same. No elephants so velites will just trow there javalins in to the masses that run towards your lines.



    I hope you enjoy this guide and don' t hesitate to leave a message with any kind of question.

    Hesus de bodemloze
    Last edited by Hesus de bodemloze; November 27, 2009 at 01:41 PM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    Excellent! I usually lose both Genua and Messana, but get them back in time, but still annoying. Will try this right away.

  3. #3
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    Can't wait for the rest, a great start!

  4. #4

    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    Question: is tax in Capua supposed to be LOW in purpose to bolster population, or should it be as high as possible without causing riots?

  5. #5

    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    Very handy and Lt will definitely approve.
    + Rep for U

  6. #6
    Hesus de bodemloze's Avatar The Gaul
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    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ejergard View Post
    Question: is tax in Capua supposed to be LOW in purpose to bolster population, or should it be as high as possible without causing riots?
    tax is supposed to be low the first 3 to 4 turns becous you move flavius out of the city, if you set the tax to high you will get riots. afther you moved the garrison that you took from messena in to capua you can set the tax to the highest level.
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  7. #7
    Laetus
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    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    Great idea this 15 turn guide , followed as best as i could.
    looks like Carthage does not expand back into the mainland after losing Taras, after Greece take Messana they halt their expansion.
    Leaves my armies to pillage North.

    Year 210bc my army is seiging Ppatavium and other armies in support hold off support from the Gauls to the West. Will take the town and move to another, could afford a Diplomat and send him to make peace with Dacia for the trade rights.

    Want to move south against Carthage and Greece

  8. #8
    Hesus de bodemloze's Avatar The Gaul
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    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    STOP don' t take patavium becous you will trigger germania to attack you, the ferst few armies are still easyt to deal with but when thy start sending silver cheverond axeman and gothic cav you will have problems holding them back with pre marius units.
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  9. #9
    cnaeus's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    dont worry about the germans! they arent as good as most people here make you think. with my previous campaign i got in an all out war with them and they never gave me a hard time. if you use the same battle tactics as against the gauls but put your triarii close behind your outer most hastati sdo you can move them forward if there cav strikes you'll be just fine. and in addition to all you legions in germany let them be followed by an army of 5 hastati so you can replenish the fallen man and have some extra if your hastati need retraining.

    cnaeus,

    Challange Macedon, and die trying

  10. #10
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    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    - updated with tactics that i use against Hannibal and Theophanes -
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    cnaeus's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    those tactics are very nice i'll try them asap but i have another great thing you should try with your hastati: make them 4 rows deep and let them close the gaps between their units and put guard mode off. that way the will bend arround the attacking block of either poeni or lybian spearman. and it also have a welcome sideeffect of making gaps in the carthaginain line where you can have your principes run through and attack them from behind. i normaly destroy those armies this way but i do have more casualties than you so i dont know if its better or worse

    cnaeus,

    Challange Macedon, and die trying

  12. #12

    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    I've noticed that slingers cause own casualties when grouped behind, and I don't value them very much, so I usually group them in front where the classic position of the velites is on the standard shift+2 formation, and I have them skirmish like that.
    IRL I understand Hastati usually was mixed up with skirmishers such as slingers and velites, so it's fairly historically accurate to use slingers this way too.
    I also group Velites behind the principe, autofire and skirmish mode off. If you can group with a little height advantage, you can engage the elephants from pretty far off and probably cause the first casualties before the elephants even reach your own lines.
    I only use the first line of hastati on guard mode when I'm defending, this being no exception. Principe and Triarii are not on guard, and as soon as the Hastatii are charged, I quickly fill the gaps with the Principe. And I have my Triarii placed the same way you do.
    In my battles to take control over Taras, the engagements looks as follows:

    Quintus Julius vs Hannibal: 3903 kills and 318 losses.
    Flavius Julius vs Theophanes: 4087 kills and 1096 losses.
    No own generals lost, and both Hannibal and Theophanes KIA.

    Also, just grouping on a height is good, but it is even better if you can group with the front ranks actually in a downslope, it will make it harder for the enemy to push them back, and they will tire more easily.

  13. #13

    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    good guide for beginners, or for people who have trouble at the start of SPQR TW

    i'd give you some rep for it, but i first need to spread
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  14. #14
    Hesus de bodemloze's Avatar The Gaul
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    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ejergard View Post
    I've noticed that slingers cause own casualties when grouped behind,
    you need to turn off fire at will mode so thy won' t fire.
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  15. #15
    Laetus
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    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hesus de bodemloze View Post
    STOP don' t take patavium becous you will trigger germania to attack you, the ferst few armies are still easyt to deal with but when thy start sending silver cheverond axeman and gothic cav you will have problems holding them back with pre marius units.

    Too late. the German war machine moves south in force.

  16. #16
    Hesus de bodemloze's Avatar The Gaul
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    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    o boy, good luck to you sire it was nice meating you. poor man he is dead and doesn' t even know it jet.
    Last edited by Hesus de bodemloze; December 23, 2008 at 02:25 PM.
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  17. #17
    cnaeus's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    why dont you try and incourage him instead of talking fear into the poor guy

    cnaeus,

    Challange Macedon, and die trying

  18. #18

    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    In 6.4 I didn't bother with which provinces I took, marching into Patavium and Macedonia around 200-190bc. I fought Germania, Macedonia, Greece and Carthage at the same time, while simoultaneously expanding my borders. Getting in war with Germania this early is no biggie, just keep a good defense to the north borders, and keep advancing on the towns that let you recruit more legions.
    However, I swapped that campaign at around 168bc or so for a new campaign in 7.0, But over 30 years of war with the Germanians hadn't affected me severely, and I just kept 2-3 legions keeping them out.
    I also stick to most of Garniers houserules, and all of LT's.

    Here's one post about my early war in the 6.4 campaign:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...58#post2947258

    This time around though, I want to keep my expansion more according to how the Romans actually did it, so I'm keeping the border north of Arminium and Genua frozen and well defended for the time being, while advancing on Sicily, Sardinia and later Iberia.

  19. #19
    Laetus
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    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hesus de bodemloze View Post
    o boy, good luck to you sire it was nice meating you. poor man he is dead and doesn' t even know it jet.
    3 legions running in rotation in North Italy have keep the barbarians at bay. Hard fighting with a lot of little battles have moved me 200 bc
    with no further expansion - time i think for taking back Messana..

  20. #20

    Default Re: SPQR guide : How to survive the first fifteen turns.

    Very nice guide Hesus! + rep

    Sulla

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