(GED Econ) Unused Merged Threads

[GrnEyedDvl]

The other night Reiks and I had a discussion about the family tree, specifically for the Saxons. Its hardly a straight line since Harold and Edgar are only related if you go wayyy back in the tree, yet one follows the other on the throne.

That meant we either had to make him a brother or a son the way CA does inheritance. Totally unacceptable.

After many hours of cursing the CA family tree, I came up with something acceptable. Basically what I did is go back a few generations so I could reasonably separate Harold and Edgar and be somewhat historically accurate.

I used these two sites for reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_o...ex_family_tree
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Goodwin_tree

I did have to change a few things a tiny bit, some people might notice, some might not.

Because of the way age is calculated, I had to fake ages in the dead characters or it would throw errors. I could have changed the age requirements in campaign_db.xml but that would probably screw up the game. Because of this Edmund who is Edward the Exiles brother is 40 at game start, not 50.

I couldnt put the entire family tree in, its wayyy to large, so I took a few generations, skipping one here and there.

Basic male line House of Wessex
Edward the Elder > Edmund Ironside > Edward the Exile > Edgar the Outlaw

Basic female line House of Wessex
Edward the Elder > Godwin of Wessex > Harold Godwinson

Only 3 generations on the female side as Harold is 44 and Edgar is 16. I considered and probably still can stick Wulfnoth Cild in there, but hes dead anyways and all I wanted to do was branch Harold and Edgar apart a bit.

Harolds brother Sweyn is now in game, as well as several of Harolds children. You cant do more than 4, even if you chance the number of children to 8 the most that show on the tree is 4. Hard coded.


I also added several entries into the name files. First to get more characers from the tree, and second just to get them to work.

The last name of a character ONLY follows characters that have the "leader" tag. You can use first and last names on those characters. But in the secondary lines, adding a last name is useless as it only reads the first name. This means if you have two characters named Edward, the game gets completely confused and wont add either one.

To solve this I made two of them, Edward and Edwardi, Edmund and Edmundi. In the names lookup file I typed their display names properly, so all you see is Edmund and Edward, but I can identify them uniquely by adding extra characters at the end of their name in descr_strat. This is especially true of females, I have a Gytha and a Gythaa, but both show up in game properly, and if a new character gets one of the names with extra letters they will show up correctly too.

You cannot have twins. I discovered this when trying to put Harolds two sons in the game. Children MUST be separated by at least a year. I ended up not using those two anyways, I used his older ones, but its still good to know.

On my version of the mod folder there are no custom portraits for Edgar, so he shows up blank.

This is how it looks in game. All the files I modified are attached and also in my folder on the FTP.

[GrnEyedDvl]

Anyone have links for the rest of the familys? I might as well do them too.

[Kinjo]

Nice work GED! it looks like you have the family tree system down. I will start working on the other family trees and we can put those together, the next one we will work on is the Normans. There are some changes that I would like to make on the Saxon tree however not to be 100% but to add the important characters of 1066 such as Harold's brothers who died with him at the battle of Hastings. The Saxon tree is different in regards to succession as you have people in it who are not related. If we can make the tree like this it would work out better with the custom portraits that I made as well.

Top of the tree;

Edward the Confessor age 63 died January 1066 ---Edith age 36 and still alive

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Harold Godwinson age 44 (Leader), Gyrth Godwinson 36, Leofwine Godwinson 31, Edgar Ironside age 16 (Heir)

Harold Godwinson Subtree;

Harold Godwinson --- Ealdgyth

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Godwine age 17, Edmund age 17, Magnus age 15, Gytha age 13

If we could set the Succession tree up like this it will be perfect for the mod, if you need to cancel one of Harold's you can remove Godwine.

All of the other characters I placed on the map where the Earls of those regions so that should remain there hopefully this is not too hard to replace the work you did, I will do similar three like this for the Normans next.

[GrnEyedDvl]

The Saxon tree is different in regards to succession as you have people in it who are not related.

The way i read the tree they are all related like I show, I just skipped a generation here and there.

You want Harold to be Edward the Confessors son and Edgars brother?? Thats kind of what I was trying to avoid. To make them more like cousins which is closer to what they are than brothers, I have to have someone above Edward the Confessor.

[GrnEyedDvl]

I guess I will try to explain what I was thinking here.

We needed two trees to show that Edgar and Howard came from different lines of the House. The most recent common ancestor they share is Edward the Elder, 871-924.

From Edward the Elders two wives spring the lines that spawned Harold and Edgar. The names in red are the generations I skipped. The circled names are the ones in the game currently. Forgive my artwork

Edwards wife Elfeda > Aethelfrith of Wessex > Eadric > Aethelweard > Athelmar Cild > Wulfnoth Cild > Godwin > Harold, Sweyn, Gyrth, Leofwine, Wulfnoth

Edwards wife Edgiva (messed that name up > Edmund the First > Edgar the Peaceful > Elfrida > Ethelred the Unready > Edmund Ironside > Edward the Exile, Edmund > Edgar the Outlaw.


We can easily add Harolds other brothers, well 3 of them at least, but I think we shouldnt list Harold and Edgar as brothers from the start. Wha I should do is add a few more so I can get Edward the Confessor in there too, since his death is what started it all.

[MCM]

Great work guys

Keep at it

[GrnEyedDvl]

Ok see if you like this better. I made the tree a bit bigger, not smaller. I think it will look better in game if we have it as accurate as we can get it. Sometimes this tree looks like a plate of spaghetti.


Edward the Elder still spawns both lines, I corrected his wifes name though technically we could use all 3 of his wives.


On Harolds side:
Edward the Elder > Wulfnoth Cild > Godwin > Harold, Gyrth, Leofwine, Wulfnoth and then 4 of Harolds children


On Edgars side:
Edward the Elder > Etherlred the Unready > Edmund Ironside, Edward the Confessor > Edward the Exile > Edgar the Aetheling


I left out quite a few on Harolds side, but on Edgars side the only generation left out is Edgar the Peaceful. I dont think I have room for him because of how ages work. I think this is the biggest starting family tree I have seen, either in a mod or in the vanilla games.

[GrnEyedDvl]

Does anyone have comments on this? If we still need to make changes then thats ok, just let me know what. If we consider this complete then we should add it to the Anglo Saxons preview.

[Kinjo]

Looks good I will add that to the build, if you could place all of the most current scripts/family files in the add to build folder and I will scout it out a bit more.

[GrnEyedDvl]

I thought I did, but I put them in my folder not the build folder.

Uploaded now.

[GrnEyedDvl]

The idea is simple, implementing it is not. The basic idea here is that in the real world, the king does not completely control the economy. The king doesnt have any control over when a business opens or closes, over when merchants move in and out of cities, or when bad things like recessions happen. In the game the player has complete control over this, I am going to fix that.

The EDB file will be completely reworked. The player will no longer be able to build any building that deals with trade or income. Instead the first level of each tree will be constructed via script on a per settlement basis based upon conditions set in the campaign script. For example if you have a history of high taxes and other negative factors, a merchant will be less likely to build in your region, but you might get some bad things like criminals. Trade agreements and resources and governors traits and faction standing will play a huge factor, so you will have to watch all of this carefully.

This is something I started on nearly a year ago, and wrote almost 200,000 lines of code for. I am scrapping most of that code as I figured out a cleaner way to do things, and I am recruiting a few people to help out on this as it is clearly bigger than a single person can handle and still get released.

This will be based on my Barebones mod for Kingdoms as it makes use of the Kingdoms commands. Because so much is tied to individual settlement names it will not be platform independent, so you will not be able to drop this script into any of the current mods out there. But one of my main priorities is to make this as simple as possible to port into another mod. Once we get to the beta release stage I will allow other mod teams to use this in their own mod testing so I can get some additional feedback. Once a full release is achieved I will help with porting into other mods.

[GrnEyedDvl]

The current team.


Scripting and layout:
GrnEyedDvl
Mimirswell


Artwork:
y2day

Coding:
Sinople
Suboutai

[GrnEyedDvl]

In this post I will maintain the current building tree, along with all the description files. Try to keep this one clean.

[GrnEyedDvl]

One of the things we are doing here is simulating the effects of both the weather/climate and the status of the economy and using that to affect finances. The first part of this script breaks the map into geographic areas, and then sets two things for each area. The weather status and the economic status.

There are 11 regions (vanilla map):
british isles
spanish peninsula
africa
america
middle east
italy
russia
turkey
romania - includes greece
eastern europe
western europe


Then each region will have one each of these two settings:

1. severe_drought
2. drought
3. normal
4. good_harvest
5. great_harvest

1. severe_recession
2. recession
3. normal
4. expansion
5. boom


These are set completely at random at game start, and then after that they will either move up a level, move down a level, or stay the same at the end of each slave turn.

So the British Isles could have a normal climate and an expanding economy while Italy is in a drought but booming with trade and the Middle East is in a recession but having a great harvest. Or any combination.

This part of the script already works, and we will be using it along with settlement specific conditions to fine tune each settlement each turn.

To give you an idea how big and how complex this system is, the above script that sets regional conditions is over 3300 lines of code, and this is just the beginning. There are no settlement conditions coded at all. The good thing is that through creative nesting of IF statements this is all contained in only two monitor_events, and one of them terminates after the first time it runs. So after the first turn, this entire piece of code runs in a single monitor which will mean virtually no performance hit at all.

I am attaching the campaign_script that contains this code and the historic_events that goes along with it for testing purposes for those that want to see it work. Please do not ask me how to change this or how to do that, this is still very much a work in progress and absolutely everything is still subject to change.

This will run in any Kingdoms mod folder you have as there are no faction specific or settlement specific commands included yet, but I suggest you download my Barebones mod folder as that is what the entire system will be using when its finished.

Comments and ideas are welcome.

[Gorrrrrn]

installed these in the BB folder.

ran game for 10 turns.

the good news is that it works
the bad news is that it's a pain to have to click off all those boxes every turn.
(have RSI and it really is a pain to do it.)

can you make it so it only reports on screen information relevant to player?
or only exceptional weather / economy - if normal don't bother?

[GrnEyedDvl]

The historic events that are in there are just for testing to make sure everything runs properly, they will not be a part of the finished product.

[AnthoniusII]

Sounds more than interesting...Some notices...
asia minor (part of byzantine empire or seljucks)and egypt must have enourmus production of agriculture!Both geografical reagions were the economic and agriculture basis of the medeival Roman empire (and other empires later) that when those reagions colapsed Roman empire colupsed also!!
Egypt's ,muslim spanish ports and east mediteranean ones(italy and greece inqluding islands)must have some trade superiority!
That way you will present the wealth of mediteranean plus the reason of the huge number of wars in those reagions to control all that income!
I hope i helped some how!

[Mímirswell]

We are looking for some individuals who want to do research in this regard but yes, we already planned for those settlements to have sufficient advantages over others (it's largely the point of the mod).

[Gorrrrrn]

regarding weather / economy:

can the two be coupled so that the weather impacts the economy?

ie the 2 positive weathers improve chances of economy expanding, whereas the 2 negative weathers increase chance of economy contracting?

currently looks a bit strange having drought and economic boom in the same area at the same time? equally a good or excellent harvest should give a boost to the economy.

as a quick and dirty way of doing this bump the economy level up 1 for good weather, 2 for excellent; reduce by 1 for poor and 2 for dreadful?

[GrnEyedDvl]

as a quick and dirty way of doing this bump the economy level up 1 for good weather, 2 for excellent; reduce by 1 for poor and 2 for dreadful?

This is sort of the path we are on right now, its just hard to lay everything out in a single post.

As it stands right now there will be a bunch of bonus levels, checked by counter numbers. Everything related to economics else gets its own value. Buildings have a certain value, resources, weather and economic conditions, governors, etc. All these values are added up, and that total is checked against the bonus levels. If between X and Y then BonusLevel_Z. Climate and economics will have bigger impacts than single buildings and governors, but as with anything balance is going to be the hard part.

I will release a bit more code when I have some more laid out and you can see a bit more of the general direction.