Semisalis
What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
I've been trying to play as Eastern factions(such as Egypt) lately and I've noticed a significant flaw. When trying to take a city, the lack of tough melee infantry makes it difficult or impossible to assault the city, especially considering how useless those cavalry archers(which are deadly in the open field) are in tight spaces... especially against regular heavy troops.
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Biarchus
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
There are ample infantry fro the easter factions, such as the heavy janissairy for the turks, so as long as you have acccess to these troops, this shouldnt be a problem. The only thing you must notice is that easter units ( other than CA and some HA) units are just not as high quality as the european ones, so getting used to them takes a while.
"The fact is that a man who wants to act virtuously in every way necessarily comes to grief among so many who are not virtuous."
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Campidoctor
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
I never really got the hang of horse archers.. Not even in open fields, skirmish mode is crap, as the units animations are bugged so half of them ends up either walking or running in the wrong direction. So you have to manage them yourself, and that's impossible if you have infantry, cavalry and archers that need taking care of aswell.
Semisalis
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
I'm playing as Egypt in this case... a few units of dismounted Ghulams, but mostly crappy light infantry. I'm trying to besiege a city that's being held by the aforementioned European heavy infantry, and even outnumbering them two to one doesn't help when you're trying to cram these units into a breach and they rout seconds afterwards.
And even the Ghulams aren't that good. > >
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Formerly known as Ford_King.
Tiro
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
Hmm, how about this cunning plan; weaken your siege force until they outnumber you by however much you feel comfortable with. They may sally forth on that turn, allowing you to use your HAs.
I generally try to wipe out armies in the field when I play as an Eastern faction and wait out sieges, btw.
Semisalis
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
That's an excellent idea, Squigian! +rep.
By the way, I just tried this out with the Byzantines(in case I needed the infantry for backup) and it worked perfectly. This gives me a whole new outlook on that faction's efficiency in sieges.
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Formerly known as Ford_King.
Horrible(ly cute)
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
Squigian has the right idea. Remember if you want open field battles -- the besieged troops sallying forth are now in an open field battle. I tend to besiege more than most so I had discovered this with Spain and the Jinettes. Awesome units in the open and every army stack should have some. The only faction that I assault with on a regular basis is the English (why I do not know).
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Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere
Biarchus
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
Although you musn't forget that going through a breach with heavy infantry isnt the only way of taking a city!, ghulams are capable of fighting and clearing walls, but I totally agree that their moral is lacking...
"The fact is that a man who wants to act virtuously in every way necessarily comes to grief among so many who are not virtuous."
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Libertus
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
Use your siege engines to the best of their ability (trebuchets, canons etc.) and just hit them from afar for as long as possible. Then maybe set up an alternate hole in their wall so you can tie up their main force in one area and give your cavalry an open lane to charge at their flank. Not a guaranteed strategy but it's better than just a bloodbath/rout in the streets.
Vicarius Provinciae
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
Another thing you could do is attack the city with just your general and have the actual army arrive as an allied unit. The computer doesn't take the latter into consideration and it will sally forth.
"Mors Certa, Hora Incerta."
"We are a brave people of a warrior race, descendants of the illustrious Romans, who made the world tremor. And in this way we will make it known to the whole world that we are true Romans and their descendants, and our name will never die and we will make proud the memories of our parents." ~ Despot Voda 1561
"The emperor Trajan, after conquering this country, divided it among his soldiers and made it into a Roman colony, so that these Romanians are descendants, as it is said, of these ancient colonists, and they preserve the name of the Romans." ~ 1532, Francesco della Valle Secretary of Aloisio Gritti, a natural son to Doge
Horrible(ly cute)
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
I never tried this. Interesting, but kind of a cheat.
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Vicarius Provinciae
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
Oh not at all. It's sort of like putting your general out there infront of the castle while hiding your army behind a hill a bit further away. The enemy attacks and then you counter ambush them.
"Mors Certa, Hora Incerta."
"We are a brave people of a warrior race, descendants of the illustrious Romans, who made the world tremor. And in this way we will make it known to the whole world that we are true Romans and their descendants, and our name will never die and we will make proud the memories of our parents." ~ Despot Voda 1561
"The emperor Trajan, after conquering this country, divided it among his soldiers and made it into a Roman colony, so that these Romanians are descendants, as it is said, of these ancient colonists, and they preserve the name of the Romans." ~ 1532, Francesco della Valle Secretary of Aloisio Gritti, a natural son to Doge
Biarchus
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
I mean of course they did that back than....Oh not at all. It's sort of like putting your general out there infront of the castle while hiding your army behind a hill a bit further away. The enemy attacks and then you counter ambush them.
"The fact is that a man who wants to act virtuously in every way necessarily comes to grief among so many who are not virtuous."
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Horrible(ly cute)
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
As to leaving the general and bodyguard a bit seperate from the main force -- cavalry did this all the time, just not at the town or castle walls. Sometimes I wished the General could be switched to a lighter cav formation just so the heavies could be used more as a "guard" unit rather than a bodyguard unt ala Napoleon. But I do not know if that would be appropriate for the period.I mean of course they did that back than....
On a (loosely) related note:
Well the phrase leading the charge did not come into use by staying behind the lines -- just wished the generals could slow a bit and let the army pass him by just before contact though.
Last edited by Viking Prince; December 28, 2008 at 03:52 AM.
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Spirit Cleric
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
Boost the Dismounted Ghulams' shield value up to 8 and give them the "effective against armour" trait in the EDU helped me. I never really understood why nearly all the infantry units in the game had an 8 shield value while this unit was left with 5 (even though their counterpart, the Hasham had 8) and the fact that a unit with maces could be left without an armour-piercing trait to it.
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
If you besiege with a weak enough force, you can tempt the enemy to sally out. Of course, then you have the new problem of having a weak besieging army. But if you don't have any infantry tough enough for street fighting, your options are either seige, sally, or lots and lots of artillery.
Horrible(ly cute)
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
A good example for people starting out is when playing England. The starting stack in the field outside of Caen can strike at Rennes on turn one. It is "weak" by AI computation and the beseiged force will sally out. Good practice early in a campaign to learn a bit about fighting open field battles. I suspect this is by design by the program team, but I do not know for certain. I play on vh/vh with the Retrofit Mod so even though I assume this works for other settings -- caveat emptor.
Grandson of Silver Guard, son of Maverick, and father to Mr MM|Rebel6666|Beer Money |bastard stepfather to Ferrets54
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Semisalis
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
The Rennes battle is the same in vanilla. I find I invariably do at least twice as well as I bring along Robert and his bodyguard. With the enemy's knights and spearmen occupied, I can trample his crossbowmen and proceed to strike at his flank and score a decisive victory. It it just me, or do rebels have worse morale than usual?
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Horrible(ly cute)
Re: What the flip am I doing with all these horse archers?
First, Gemerals have a huge effect on morale -- most rebels lack generals.
Second and this is a wild guess, distance from capitol affects loyalty. There may be a relationship with morale also -- rebels have no capitol.
Grandson of Silver Guard, son of Maverick, and father to Mr MM|Rebel6666|Beer Money |bastard stepfather to Ferrets54
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