ungrateful pope!

**Yojimbo** · December 18, 2008, 07:39 PM

So in my m2tw campaign iev crushed the French and the moors and Portugal and Milan Scotland and England are basically finished. I was at war with the papal states and took Florence before the pope died by my army and another had to be elected. I voted for Denmark thinking i should try to keep my allies happy but it turned out MY pope got in after what I’d just done! so I was reconciled but iw wanted to finish off the papal states as I’ve never seen it move beore and attacked England and that led to me getting exconned by my own pope and then he CALLS A CRUSADE against me so now I’m at war with every catholic faction I own almost half of Europe and suddenly i lose all my alliances and become a target thanks to MY OWN POPE FROM SPAIN. Sheesh he mustn’t like his homelands. i hope the crusade stops when I kill him as I have a big army outside Rome ready to attack next turn.

**whitesoxfan** · December 18, 2008, 09:11 PM

Why should he be grateful? You didn't vote for him, you've attacked basically every catholic.

**Yojimbo** · December 18, 2008, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by whitesoxfan

Why should he be grateful? You didn't vote for him, you've attacked basically every catholic.

because i recruited that priest

Calling a crusade against your own country is a bit over the top isn't it?

**Manoflooks** · December 18, 2008, 10:31 PM

you declared war on him...

**Yojimbo** · December 18, 2008, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Manoflooks

you declared war on him...

no he attacked me first while i was fighting Milan he besieged Milan which belonged to me and i just retaliated. id also crusaded before that twice and bribed him a few times.

france attacked me England betrayed me and Milan attacked me over and over i couldn't do much except fight other cahtlics and then the scots did as well so i had to crush them to cut down on the number of enemies.

**Monsieur Alphonse** · December 19, 2008, 02:13 AM

Your standing with the pope was very bad. Then you got reconciled but voted for the wrong pope. He is now the head of the papal states, a faction you are at war with. So there are several reasons why this pope probably wants you to go to hell:
1 bad standings
2 made worse by not supporting him
and 3 at war with his faction.
You should have obeyed him and first made peace with him, next have your standing with him raised and then crushed the English.

The pope will be grateful if you are one of his selectors but only for a short while. After that the affairs of the papal states will be more important as will keeping the peace between his warring children.

At least you don't have to worry about diplomacy anymore and have made the game a bit more interesting

**whitesoxfan** · December 19, 2008, 08:34 AM

Also, if your reputation is bad, people will attack you more and make deals less. So if you try to be peaceful, you'll find you have less enemies. Even if you could crush scotland, just cripple them because destroying factions hurts your reputation.

**Junius** · December 19, 2008, 09:01 AM

So you're angry about having to fight fewer battles in Total War?
Or is the possibility of expanding your Empire, knowing that their most heinous weapon has already been used against you?
Or is it that you have a trained a priest, who, on becoming Pope, puts his religion and faith, and the well being of his flock before that of his expantionist, oppresive and murderous king?

**Monsieur Alphonse** · December 19, 2008, 10:24 AM

You should also remember that nationalism or patriotism are nineteenth century inventions. People in medieval times were loyal to their own class, order, religion and not to their country.

Loyalty was always a personal matter. You do something for me, so I do something for you. The new pope is loyal to his own Kingdom; the Papal States, to the Kings(ah um Cardinals) who elected him and not to the King who DID NOT ELECT HIM

if you understand what I mean.

**Yojimbo** · December 19, 2008, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by fergusmck

Or is it that you have a trained a priest, who, on becoming Pope, puts his religion and faith, and the well being of his flock before that of his expantionist, oppresive and murderous king?

That one

but when you state it like that I can see why it happened

Originally Posted by Monsieur Alphonse

You should also remember that nationalism or patriotism are nineteenth century inventions. People in medieval times were loyal to their own class, order, religion and not to their country.

Loyalty was always a personal matter. You do something for me, so I do something for you. The new pope is loyal to his own Kingdom; the Papal States, to the Kings(ah um Cardinals) who elected him and not to the King who DID NOT ELECT HIM

if you understand what I mean.

You're right but i totally didn't expect my pope to get in.

**Artetius** · December 20, 2008, 12:12 AM

The Papal States are actually a threat for you? The only time I have had them grow to anything that could growl at my empire was when I relocated the Papacy to Constantinople and Asian Minor after vacating the the Byzantines. The Joy of ruling all of Italy! Other than that the Papacy is normally just the Province of Rome in all my campaigns, the exception of the Pope occasionally fighting his own crusades.

**Monsieur Alphonse** · December 20, 2008, 03:18 AM

If for some reason the Pope can get an extra region, he will become a normal faction and start capturing neighboring regions. If he also gets involved in a war he will start to create his own empire. There are several threads about imperialistic popes

.

**Monza_Smith** · December 20, 2008, 07:40 AM

What I do just in case the pope gets on my back/excommunicates me is I train lots of priests and watch them turn into cardinals, while keeping 3 fully trained assassins outside Rome, and a Spy inside Rome. I don't know if this tactic is real old or not, but right now in my game playing as Milan, I have about 4 or 5 priests in the college of cardinals. So if the pope p***es me off or excommunicates me, I just assassinate him with one of my 3 fully trained assassins, and then choose another pope - any one I want. Using this method, I have COMPLETE control over the Papal States.

Again, sorry if this is old, but it's so fun!