To Britons everywhere

[Eric]

In these uncertain times, times of cultural homogenization and seperatism, times of assimilation, times of religious extremism, I think we Britons should remember some of the old Empire patriotism that used to give us such strength. And by Britons, I mean every people who were born as a product of the British Empire. Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders alike, united by a common imperial past with our European brothers the British. In times when the future is so uncertain, let us look to the glories of our past, and take pride in what our great Commonwealth of Nations has endured in that past. Two world wars, the break-down of an entire world order, the pressures of fascism and communism. If our Commonwealth could endure the 20th century, by far the bloodiest and most terrible time in human history thus far, what can the future bring that we can't endure? So let us take pride and patriotism in our great Commonwealth, and here are some videos that celebrate just that:









Was that pan-nationalist of me? Damn right it is. In these times, it seems like the world is falling apart. It is the links of brotherhood between our nations that we must cherish and protect. The bonds of blood-brothers are what hold us up, keep us strong. Canadians, Australians, British, New Zealanders, the young men of each nation have bled for this Commonwealth and each other. In times like these, we can take strength in each other.

God save the Commonwealth of Nations!

[Kiljan Arslan]

actually technicly speaking it would be more pan nationalist then nationalist.

[HansDuet]

Lawl.

[Eric]

Duly noted and corrected, Mr. Kiljan

[jankren]

Soldiers are the most brainwashed people on earth.

[Nutsack]

Soldiers are the most brainwashed people on earth.

I agree. Someone fighting for their country should think about what a country really is. A governing body functioning very much like most organized crime syndicates. Money for protection, education and health care (a little more to it obviously).

Fighting for money, freedom or ones people is an example of what I would call a worthy cause. Fighting against murder, genocide or discrimination are other good examples.

[Sven788]

I agree. Someone fighting for their country should think about what a country really is. A governing body functioning very much like most organized crime syndicates. Money for protection, education and health care (a little more to it obviously).

Fighting for money, freedom or ones people is an example of what I would call a worthy cause. Fighting against murder, genocide or discrimination are other good examples.

Why do you call soldiers brainwashed?
It could be that I am wrong, but most soldiers see a country like that, they are the defenders of that governing body.

[Nutsack]

Why do you call soldiers brainwashed?
It could be that I am wrong, but most soldiers see a country like that, they are the defenders of that governing body.

I guess I'm overreacting a little. For example, I don't think most American soldiers are brainwashed, because they are probably fighting for the American people more than for their country.

So we basically agree, but our conflict probably arose from misunderstanding, mostly on my part.

[Lozza12]

Well I think Eric has posted the most positive, constructive thread I've read anywhere here for quite some time. Sure, there are downsides to every "good idea" and not all actions undertaken by the British were for the benefit of all peoples, but since when has that been new?

We all live in countries that are supposedly distinct nation-states with their own histories, traditions and priorities. If we didn't live like that then we would all have joined a commune somewhere, be smoking dope and sleeping with our friends' wives.

Maybe the EU is an attempt a modern commune? :hmmm: I don't mind the EU though - it is at least a 21st century attempt at a "good idea" for the benefit of this group called "Europeans". Judging by its protected farming practices it clearly isn't too interested in the welfare of farmers elsewhere in the world, and why should it be? Your average Italian or German knows diddly-squat about farming conditions in Sri Lanka, or the aspirations of fishermen in Senegal. It's up to the Sri Lankans & Senegalese to look after themselves.

I'm a New Zealander of British descent (English/Scottish) and I'll happily tick a box that classes me as "New Zealander", "European", "British" or "Pakeha" (Maori word for non-Maori basically). I know my family background. I have some pride in being descended from poor British immigrants from the 1840's and 1950's, and I'm proud of many aspects of the British Empire and British culture. Do I feel slightly more comfortable around people who look a bit like me and speak the same tongue as I do? - well I'd be lying if I said no. In that sense I do associate more with being British than anything else.

I certainly don't feel guilty about injustices done during the Zulu Wars, colonies annxed from the French in the 1700-1800's, nor the shooting of Gandhi's supporters in India in the 1930's. People and empires have *always* done this to each other and always will - whether it's done by a country, a tribe, or an alliance of countries. People are fooling themselves if they think this trait of humankind has vanished, or if you think that the British and their Empire invented it! I mean this is the RTW forum - you all enjoy pretending to be the Roman tribe and taking over the Mediterranean world!

I'll finish by supporting Eric on another point - the British Empire had plenty wrong with it (I mean look at the ridiculous Class distinctions still evident in the UK today!) - but it did plenty of constructive things too. For example: how many other empires *voluntartily* agreed to disband themselves (in the 1950's)? Is the spread of democracy and cricket to other parts of the world a terrible thing? Did British justice eventually apply to *all* citizens of the Empire - Yes. Who actively sought abolition of the Slave Trade in the 19th century - Britain (see the excellent film Amazing Grace ). Did the British regularly massacre and/or try to religiously convert the non-British parts of their empire - No.

For an empire that was more or less acquired by mistake over 500 years, by a people from a small island off the coast of Europe - I think Britain and its associated peoples should be proud to have their connections with an often glorious past.

Cheers,

Lozza12

[Sven788]

I guess I'm overreacting a little. For example, I don't think most American soldiers are brainwashed, because they are probably fighting for the American people more than for their country.

So we basically agree, but our conflict probably arose from misunderstanding, mostly on my part.

Oke

[Beanbee]

Our 'strength' and patriotism was due to near 1,000 years of conflict. Adversity breeds strength. If you wish a Britain strong in that way, destroy the economy and make enemies throughout the world and you'll have your wish. If you wish the commonwealth to be strong do it throughout it and give them another empire to fight with. I don't believe that a 'strong' society that believes so blindly in itself and it's superiority is a nation I'd want to live in or even hear about.

I'm British born, bred and emmigrated

[Caduet]

woweee! Can I be British too?

[Bayezid]

, the young men of each nation have bled for this Commonwealth and each other. In times like these, we can take strength in each other.

They bled in the name of profit and imperialism.

a LOL topic

[Beanbee]

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...p/eligibility/
Probably, as long as your not <18, insane or a criminal and are either married to a Brit or a British resident for 5years. Please, try not to trip over the Nationalists on the way in.

[Eric]

Pan-nationalists, Beanbee, because I have pride and patriotism in all members of the Commonwealth, even the ones I don't live in.

Bayezid: Perhaps the generals sent them for profit and imperialism, but the man on the ground was fighting for King and Country. Or because they commited a crime and the army was the more attractive alternative. One of the two . Honestly, what is this modern obsession with revising history to make it so that no one can take any pride in the accomplishments of his or her forebears? Why must we paint heroes into villains? Why make great men look small? I find that, pyschologically, people need heroes. Maybe that's not always the truth, but the truth isn't always what's needed. Sometimes a comforting lie will give people more hope than the harsh truth. And if there is one thing that any nation must have to survive, it is hope.

I'm not saying that we should make monsters into heroes, God no. Take Oliver Cromwell, he was a frowning stormtrooper, a puritan nut, and a dictator. But when you take men of proven quality and virtue, like say the Duke of Wellington, and decry their accomplishments by saying they fought for "profit and imperialism, nothing more", you're undermining a nation's pride in itself.

[Bayezid]

Pan-nationalists, Beanbee, because I have pride and patriotism in all members of the Commonwealth, even the ones I don't live in.

Bayezid: Perhaps the generals sent them for profit and imperialism, but the man on the ground was fighting for King and Country. Or because they commited a crime and the army was the more attractive alternative. One of the two

Well didnt the King have the same intentions?
Those who fought ont he ground were simply brainwashed...like jenkrin already said...thats what nationalism does generally...Brainwashing people...

[Lord de Lyonesse]

you're undermining a nation's pride in itself.

Totally for you.. wish more people could see it this way.. im glad that Labour has done something right and letting my brother learn about the British Empire in G.C.S.E history if he chooses to do it. Of course it will say how bad it was but still it will give him a chance to do some further reading and make a decision for himself.

People seem to forget that Britain abolished the slave trade in the early 19th century and stopped exports of slaves leaving for America (Land of the Free?).

I agree though a bit of jingoism wouldnt go amiss would it?

[SepulchreUK]

Pan-nationalists, Beanbee, because I have pride and patriotism in all members of the Commonwealth, even the ones I don't live in.

Bayezid: Perhaps the generals sent them for profit and imperialism, but the man on the ground was fighting for King and Country. Or because they commited a crime and the army was the more attractive alternative. One of the two . Honestly, what is this modern obsession with revising history to make it so that no one can take any pride in the accomplishments of his or her forebears? Why must we paint heroes into villains? Why make great men look small? I find that, pyschologically, people need heroes. Maybe that's not always the truth, but the truth isn't always what's needed. Sometimes a comforting lie will give people more hope than the harsh truth. And if there is one thing that any nation must have to survive, it is hope.

I'm not saying that we should make monsters into heroes, God no. Take Oliver Cromwell, he was a frowning stormtrooper, a puritan nut, and a dictator. But when you take men of proven quality and virtue, like say the Duke of Wellington, and decry their accomplishments by saying they fought for "profit and imperialism, nothing more", you're undermining a nation's pride in itself.

This is the first comment I felt I had to respond to, but no he bloody wasn't.
The soldiers that built the British Empire didn't go into it for some glorious notion of Monarch and Country, they did it because they were poor, often jobless and like young poor men thoroughout the centuries saw military service as adventure, regular pay and maybe the chance for some sex lol.

Certainly at times of national crisis, and amongst the officer elite the idea of national honour was more tangible, but for the blokes in the field they were fighting because they were there, and there friends were there. The compulsion to do right by the blokes next to you is the biggest motivator on the battlefield, not the glory of Britannia everlasting.

[smithy17]

This is the first comment I felt I had to respond to, but no he bloody wasn't.

I'm not going t o say you're wrong, I'm just going to say how do you know? For all I know you could be a soldier yourself but it doesn't mean you can speak for the motivations of people who lived more than 200 yrs ago.

[SepulchreUK]

I'm not going t o say you're wrong, I'm just going to say how do you know? For all I know you could be a soldier yourself but it doesn't mean you can speak for the motivations of people who lived more than 200 yrs ago.

I am an ex-squaddie as it happens, and I know because of testamonials, diaries, journals and records of real soldiers.

The King and Country is a noble idea but when it comes down to it men don't go into battle for Gods, Monarchs or spots of land but for eachother.