shiltrom / shield wall

[Raul]

dear Sirs,

please explain difference between shiltrom and shield wall
and when what is better to use.

i noticed, that lower units used to have shiled wall ability, while more elite units tend to have shiltrom ability, but i prefer shield wall ability, as it does not do this stupid circle and i somehow think myself, that the shield wall ability is something to move forward, while protecting effectively against arrows, but is not so good, if my troops got charged by enemy cavalry.

however, thank you for any advise.

[lordextra0]

never used shield wall so can't help with that
I do use shiltrom frequently though if my spearmen get sourrounded or just to hold a position(city gate)
Also shiltrom(if it's the generals unit) protects the general since he will be in the middle

[Manoflooks]

shiltrom is good if you are outnumbered or are defending a thin place. beware archers.
shield wall is a very good defensive maneuver, strong from the front. beward of flank attacks.

[ginger_hammer]

Shield wall lowers attack and raises defense. I found its usefull defending at the gates as they seem to push back harder, pushing the enemy into the burning oil.
Shiltrom is very effective out in the open against calvary charges but yeah both are suseptable to arrows.

[wngpooniii]

Shield wall lowers attack and raises defense. I found its usefull defending at the gates as they seem to push back harder, pushing the enemy into the burning oil.
Shiltrom is very effective out in the open against calvary charges but yeah both are suseptable to arrows.

i thought shield wall is good against arrows?? i mean, why not? with all their shield locked on to each other, arrows cannot fly through right?

[ginger_hammer]

i thought shield wall is good against arrows?? i mean, why not? with all their shield locked on to each other, arrows cannot fly through right?

Well yeah that would make sense, I guess from the sides/rear it is very vulnerable but as they are all bunched up it makes for an easier missile target too.
Try some tests, I've only really used shield wall defeneding castles.

[maxstill]

schiltrom is almost useless,the only thing it can do is stall enemies in fact thats all spearmen can do against cavalry,in my SS battles i just simply charge with my heavy cavalry nd crush everything in my way

[Irish guy]

If you want useless try spearwall, my men fight better without it turned on.

[Sherwood]

Shiltrom - used when your unit is going to get surrounded... also of note is that multiple spears in the same unit will make one big circle which can be quite useful on defence as your line wont be broken.

Shieldwall - improves defense against pretty much everything from the front (infantry, arrows, or even cavalry charges), but makes your unit quite slow, vulnerable to flanks but also much more cohesive even while moving.

I will say that shieldwall isn't always as useful as it sounds, but it can be pretty useful when in cities where the fights can be in narrow corridors.

[Etimos]

Schiltrom is historically a defense against cavalry. Essentially the spearmen or pikemen circle up and create a human fortress to defend against cavalry. The scottish pioneered the Mobile Schiltrom during some of their territorial wars with england, to great effect against their cavalry.

Unfortunately against anything other than cavalry it's not all that effective, as the circle formation means that although their shields are locked, their spears are not dense enough to repel infantry. It is also vulnerable to archers because most of the men are not directly facing the archers in any given situation, and because it's difficult for the men to raise their shields above their heads when they're trying to keep them locked together.

Shield Wall is an adaptation of the Phalanx style defense pioneered by the ancient greeks, whereby the warriors march together in lock-step and lock shields with their spears fixed forward. This reduces their mobility and their ability to aim with their spears, but presents their enemy with a wall of not only broad shields but also long spears, essentially creating a human palisade.

While very effective against light infantry thanks to the dense formation of spears that jut out in front of the shields, the Phalanx is very vulnerable to flanking maneuvers because the wall is rigid and depends on a tight linear formation, meaning that the man on either end of the wall has no cover to his flank. Additionally, the wall is much less mobile than a loose formation, and cannot react quickly to a highly mobile threat which can readily change the direction it's attacking from.

Basically the difference is that Schiltrom is an anti-Cavalry technique, and Shield Wall is an anti-infantry technique.

[Tacitursa]

difference between shiltrom and shield wall

Shield wall is great for protecting your 2hand shock and flank units from archery fire and cavalry charges. your shield wall should be placed on the flanks with your shock and 2 handed units behind it. When the shield wall is engaged your troops behind flank around.

Shield wall absorbes cavalry charges and archery fire alot better than Shiltrom.

Shiltrom formation for me has one use and one use only and thats when your unit is flanked from the side or rear at which point you turn it on.It just gives you time for reinforcements and prevents what should of been an instant rout.

So i guess the differences are as follows.

Shield wall prevents you getting into trouble.
Shiltrom helps when you are in trouble.

If the former is done correctly the later is never used. I myself almost never use shiltrom it should be replaced with shield wall imo

[BruceAlmighty]

Is their a way to give higher end units shield wall..i find it stupid that my spear militas can do shield wall and my armored swordsmen cannot.

[hitokiri2486]

if you edit the EDU, just replace "schiltrom" with "shield_wall" for whichever unit you're looking at

[maxstill]

yes i know all the history things but all i want to point ou is that SS spearmen are useless,just try and you will see 1 division of seargent spearmen vs 1 division of chivalric knights just one charge and then stay in combat the spearmen were all killed with my cavalry taking only 6 men casuelties

[Tacitursa]

yes i know all the history things but all i want to point ou is that SS spearmen are useless,just try and you will see 1 division of seargent spearmen vs 1 division of chivalric knights just one charge and then stay in combat the spearmen were all killed with my cavalry taking only 6 men casuelties

Well thats a bit of a technology jump dont you think? If there is access to chivalric knights you almost certainly have a better anti-cavalry than Sergeant spearmen and at the very least your Sergeants should have armor upgrades. Did you use a fresh un-upgraded unit of sergeants vs chivalric knights?

For instance when playing as england and the enemy has acess to chivalric knights you almost certainly have Billmen which do a better job than sergeants.

What faction are you playing?

[BruceAlmighty]

@Hitokiri where is the EDU? i really have no clue when it comes to file editing and stuff.

[gta_140]

I like to put the spearmen that are covering the flanks in an open field battle in shiltrom. Cavalry always seem to hit them then get chewed up. Wroks pretty good on all difficulties.

[Tacitursa]

I like to put the spearmen that are covering the flanks in an open field battle in shiltrom. Cavalry always seem to hit them then get chewed up. Wroks pretty good on all difficulties

That works really good in some circumstances but cavalry never tottaly uncircle your formation so upto half of your shiltrom isnt even in battle so your pretty much halfing your damage

[Iscariott]

That works really good in some circumstances but cavalry never tottaly uncircle your formation so upto half of your shiltrom isnt even in battle so your pretty much halfing your damage

Half is still more than what you'd get out of a spear unit either caught from the side, or caught repositioning to cover a flank. Shiltroms are great 'capstones' to your line.

[Navajo Joe]

Half is still more than what you'd get out of a spear unit either caught from the side, or caught repositioning to cover a flank. Shiltroms are great 'capstones' to your line.

I tried out the Shieldwall last night against the Fatties on an open field. I lhad two units of Norse Archers who deployed stakes, three units of Spears who positioned end of the line and the middle and 8 units of Viking Raiders in Shieldwall. They were instructed to hold their position. The Fatties attacked with odds of 2:1 in their favour with a strong infantry army. They could not break my line, as some of my units depleted I filled the gaps with reserves. I won on a Close Victory. The AI was superb it tried attacks from flanks, full on, retreating and charge, my line held.