The US and Iraq: A Power Struggle for DC

[Samuel Adams]

As I was working on my book the other day, I made a stark realization; one that I knew existed but that I'd never connected.

Starting with the attacks of 9/11, the United States has been bombarded by it's leaders in Washington, D.C., calling for more laws, bills, executive orders, to 'Keep us safe and secure.'

In all my debates against staunch GOP Jackbooters, they have made arguments for this from the "I sort of see what they mean," to nigh-fanatical and/or downright cowardice-driven remarks such as "I'd rather be a slave then worry with Terrorism outside my door," etc. In a myspace GOP forum (that was hacked, spammed, and virus-laden last year) I met what are possibly the dregs of American society in terms of accepted people who are worth nothing to the actual spirit of the United States, who totally accept this line of thought.

For people to think this way, and agree to various acts like "The Patriot Act," "Protect America Act," "The Military Commissions Act," etc, as well as countless executive orders, goes against everything the nation was founded on, as well as opens doors for complete and utter tyranny in the US.

Ironically, these people are often the same ones who, on the topic of Iraq, agree with politicians who say that Iraqis need to step up and fight for their freedom. After all, we did "liberate" them, right? Throwing out the falacies such as "Freedom through Democracy," or the notion that a true, Free Government can ever exist in the Middle East, especially one based not on a true free system, but one based on the US System of today, we are expecting Iraqis to give up security for 'freedom.'

So Americans, spurred on by their leaders, state apologists and statists, and curring cowards, are supposed to simply give up their rights for safety.

Iraqis are supposed to give up all their safety for their 'freedom.'

It does not make much sense to a man such as myself. Thanks to the US of A, Iraqis are much more likely to be victimized by terror than any Americans are.

Then, when you realize that DC has the most to gain from this- a Pro-US Government in Iraq, and a completely cowered and fearful people at home to lead without question- it all makes sense in a wierd, disgusting way.

Discuss.

[Heinz Guderian]

What are the chances of you guys repealing the Patriot Act?

[Samuel Adams]

Not ever big enough. The biggest thing we can hope for is that it's repealed when A) People in the US start acting like they are from the US, and demand it's repeal, or B) Later in the future it's deemed un-necessary, and the majority of it is repealed while the facets still needed are lumped into a new anti-terror bill.

[JP226]

What are the chances of you guys repealing the Patriot Act?

repealing it? No need to since it expires.

[Heinz Guderian]

repealing it? No need to since it expires.

would it just expire? when does it expire? I read certain emergency laws enacted by Roosevelt during WW2 having expired. But i did read this on a left wing website. I do like reading left-wing websites, but they get a little crazy at times.

[manofarms89]

i ing hate the Patriot Act so God damn much. and the fact that they have the ing audacity to call it the Patriot Act makes it even more idiotic. suggesting that anyone against it is un-patriotic.

[Pontifex Maximus]

i ing hate the Patriot Act so God damn much. and the fact that they have the ing audacity to call it the Patriot Act makes it even more idiotic. suggesting that anyone against it is un-patriotic.

Why do you care though? Do you have something to hide?

[manofarms89]

Why do you care though? Do you have something to hide?

of course i have something to hide, who doesn't? and the government has no right to know what it is unless they can prove its illegal through evidence and a judge agrees that they may confiscate it. but not through illegal wiretaps!

[Admiral Piett]

It's one of the big reasons I 100% supported Congressmen Ron Paul for President and why I was so frustrated that I couldn't. Obama has always side-stepped the question, saying something like "I would have Judges put it under Constitutional review." That's basically saying he's going to have people look at and tell him whether or not its lawful. I don't see that as standing up for American principles. It needs to be repealed at the soonest possible time and the Department of Homeland Security should be immediately disbanded. The fact that he chose a Head for HS so quickly is a sign that he has no intention of doing so. I really hope that Obama doesn't become a puppet of the GOP elite or the military-industrial complex.

You can argue all you want in defense of the Patriot Act, but guess what, that's what the CIA, FBI, NSA, Secret Service, etc are for. Our country sorely doesn't need another multi-billion dollar security program because you decrease efficiency for one thing and you are sacrificing the civil liberties of citizens, even if in the smallest ways. Those little liberties like a right to privacy and the right to a warrant are things I'd fight tooth and nail for. The government does not need the power nor the responsibility of arresting any person suspected of terrorism without a warrant or evidence and trying them in secret courts.

My suggestion would be that we simply repeal these various acts, dismantle the DHS, and simply increase funding to the FBI and the NSA. While decreasing military spending. Intelligence is much better than brute force.

[Captain Jin]

DHS is just an umbrella department for others to fall under isn't it? Stuff like ICE, TSA, and the Coast Guard. Or am I mistaken?

[Justinian]

DHS is just an umbrella department for others to fall under isn't it? Stuff like ICE, TSA, and the Coast Guard. Or am I mistaken?

It's also an investigatory branch on its own like the FBI or CIA (Office of Intelligence & Analysis and Coast Guard Intelligence).

[Captain Jin]

I see. Well I know that the FBI's leading priority is counter intelligence and counter terrorism within the United States. I like the idea of an umbrella agency that makes inter agency cooperation much smoother, and the sharing of information happen more frequently.

But the fact that there's separate investigatory bodies is troubling. Seems rather redundant and then of course you get into pissing matches with other agencies over juristiction.

[Justinian]

The US intelligence system is frankly idiotic. The CIA is independent; the NSA and military intelligence agencies are part of the Department of Defense; the FBI, ATF and DEA are part of the Department of Justice ... it's half-arsed catatonic organization.

[Captain Jin]

It's not that the CIA independant so much as it's restricted from acting domestically, same for NSA.

[Justinian]

By independent I mean not explicitly under one of the Departments of the government.

[mrmouth]

By independent I mean not explicitly under one of the Departments of the government.

Yes and no. You make it sound as if their is no control or accountability. There very much was.

Now the DNI controls the CIA.


As far as the Patriot Act, its never harmed me, nor will it. There hasn't been an attack on US soil, however there have been a number of large scale attacks that were in operational stages, that have been avoided. People that I respect, have made it know that the PA played a part in being able to act in a timely manner in those cases.


This is what the PA allows for:

The Act increases the ability of law enforcement agencies to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial and other records; eases restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States; expands the Secretary of the Treasury’s authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities; and enhances the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting immigrants suspected of terrorism-related acts. The act also expands the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA PATRIOT Act’s expanded law enforcement powers can be applied.

So, the US essentially passed an Act, for all the world to see, instead of doing the things in secret, that all countries do in situations where their internal security is threatened. If you think that the US is the only country to go to such lengths to keep its interests or population safe, you are woefully ignorant.

[Admiral Piett]

Agreed. The US needs a major overhaul of its Intelligence system. Kennedy tried to disband the CIA shortly before his assassination. Obviously it never happened. I think now more than ever we need to get it all into a collective group, rather than individual, competing organizations.

[Ragabash]

Moved to Political Academy.

[Samuel Adams]

Moved to Political Academy.

Yeah.... no.

Why do you care though? Do you have something to hide?

The potential from all these programs for mistakes (name one major thing US Intell from any branch has gotten right the first time since before 1941) is astounding.

This argument is used by everyone who honestly believes the Government is keeping terrorists from their bedrooms at night, to people too lazy to want to oppose it, to people who think that because their party is/was in control when it was implemented it must be a sign from God that this should be done.

It's a power grab. Yes, it's supposedly against 'terrorists,' but all these acts put together also cover things such as foreign affairs- for instance, a MSN conversation can be monitored if you mention "Iraq," "Mexico," "New Zealand," etc, and so on.

Now, if I'm talking to a friend about something I really don't have anything to hide, if they are indeed monitoring that convo- but the fact that they are should scare the holy bejeezus out of you.

The case with the agency that was listening in on soldiers' calls home, getting off to the soldiers' pillow talk for no reason should raise alarm bells.

Instead, people got peeved it happened to the soldiers, and went back to their football.

All it takes is one mistake for you to be raided, put in prison, denied citizenship, and thus all legal rights, for you to realize how flawed the system can be. Just last night they showed how a man had been imprisoned for months on murder charges on a case of mistaken identity... he was released with an "I'm sorry..." from the USBP, ICE, and the Dona Ana County Detention facility.

But people would rather think, "I'm a good citizen and it would never happen to me," than to actively fight back.

Like a liberated German Preacher said after being let out of a Concentration Camp in 1945, "When they came for the Communists, it did not affect us and we did nothing. When they came for the Jews, that did not affect us, and we did nothing. When they came for us [clergy?] there was no one left to help us."

I honestly think that the US will see a time in the near future where people will wake up and realize, this is not the US of A I was raised in, nor brought up to love.

[Captain Jin]

It is kind of funny when people complain about CIA botch ups. The very nature of clandestine service means that when they do get things right you'll never know about it. They don't broadcast their successes, which is what makes everyone think that CIA or MI6 is incompetent. If you take a step back and think about that for a second you may realize how silly a thought that is.