How effective are the Greeks in combat?

[Prince of Judah]

I've been playing as the Greeks and it seems that they are inept on the field of battle. They have a great economy so I can bribe everyone but I'm itching to flex some Hellas muscle and It seems that these guys are a cultural/ economy power rather than a military one. I have several questions. Are there hopelite units later in the game that can hold their own against legionaries and other factions' late units? I've seen that hoplites switch to sword when in close close combat but can they hold their own against infantry that is only sword based and doesn't include spears? Also, is their a way to train more spartans than the ones allotted at the first turn? If so, are their Heavy armored late unit spartans? I watched a thing on thermopylae on the history channel and it said that the hoplites used Lammelar armor which is basically kevlar and can stop spear thrusts and arrows. I suspect had Greek civilization survived and flourished they would have developed advanced armor like the Romans did.

[Lord Feloric's Ambassador]

My Lord suspects your fighting style with the Greek City States are not the most effective with Hoplite warriors. As long as you keep the enemy from attacking your flanks the phalanx will hold strong. Force your enemy into a frontal assault and my Lord promises you will see success in the battle field.

[Prince of Judah]

My lord thinks he deserves a better reply from a different forum member.

[Atatürk]

My Lord suspects your fighting style with the Greek City States are not the most effective with Hoplite warriors. As long as you keep the enemy from attacking your flanks the phalanx will hold strong. Force your enemy into a frontal assault and my Lord promises you will see success in the battle field.

First of all gain a bit of reputation before you start talking like a drunken hobo.

[Lord Feloric's Ambassador]

First of all gain a bit of reputation before you start talking like a drunken hobo.

Has my Lord insulted you?

First of all, usually a 'first of all' is followed by a 'secondly'. You don't need to qualify it if it's the only part of your response. But seriously, Feloric, it gets annoying.

Was that supposed to be directed at my Lord? When have I said "first of all" or "secondly?"

[Entropy Judge]

Was that supposed to be directed at my Lord? When have I said "first of all" or "secondly?"

The first part is 'directed at' Kemelraick; the second part is directed at you, since "your lord" isn't here to be talked at.

[Zephyrus]

The first part is 'directed at' Kemelraick; the second part is directed at you, since "your lord" isn't here to be talked at.

Plz, please, don't insult feloric. I have a suspicion that this being has homocidal tendencies when some1 insults his master...

I'd like to think about the people on this earth, and how they'd rather NOT go thru a rm of "The day the Earth Stood Still"!

[Lord Dakier]

First of all gain a bit of reputation before you start talking like a drunken hobo.

Perhaps you need more rep as Lord Feloric is a friend of mine as we are both Lords so I suggest you also grant his ambassador with the same respect.

Yes Lord Feloric is most right keep your enemy infront. Confine them to charge your spears.

[keebz]

First of all gain a bit of reputation before you start talking like a drunken hobo.

Because reputation is directly related to the quality of your post. Although, in your case I suppose it is this time.

[Lord Feloric's Ambassador]

My Lord offers his insight and wisdom and you insult him...

[AqD]

My Lord offers his insight and wisdom and you insult him...

[Zephyrus]

My lord thinks he deserves a better reply from a different forum member.

Are you nutz!??? He's going to go COLUMBINE if he finds out...

My Lord offers his insight and wisdom and you insult him...

OMFG, too late!!! EVERYBODY RUN AND DUCK FOR COVER!!!!!! DON'T LOOK BACK!! YOU JUST PISSED OFF THE GUY THAT GORT/CHUCK NORRIS ARE AFRAID OF!!!! FLY YOU DAMN FOOLS!

[Lord Dakier]

"How Effective Are The Greeks?"
Like a bunch of school girls having a pillow fight!

I Love It!

But seriously... you dont want to fight them head on because unless your Romans there will be alot of allied deaths! Try and flank them as their Phalanx units are highly fortified from the front.

[C-Rob]

March to the enemy's ranks with your best hoplites(your best BEST unit all the way on the far right) At all times have militia cavalry attacking your enemy. Then stop just in front of hte enemy) They will charge. Your line will hold. Attack through the rear. ROUT!! Yay. Go greeks.

[Lord Dakier]

You use spear cavalry to keep your enemy within a tight formation. While your opposition is being crushed from the sides of your cavalry you send in your Phalax to easily poke the enemy with their sticks lol.

[Traitorfish]

Also, is their a way to train more spartans than the ones allotted at the first turn?

Spartan Hoplites can only be trained by a 4th level Barracks in Sparta itself, a sort of "extra" level in the Greek hoplite tree (Militia Hoplites, Hoplites, Armoured Hoplites, Spartan Hoplites), so, apart from the "teaser" unit you start with, are a later-game unit.

A tactic I've found useful for keeping a phalanx in formation is to attack enemies by ordering a formation which overlaps their front, rather than merely by clicking "attack". This why, the phalanx stays in formation, and, unless it begins to break, keeps using it's spears.

[Entropy Judge]

Spartan Hoplites can only be trained by a 4th level Barracks in Sparta itself

And in Syracuse.

[Ludens]

And in Syracuse.

Didn't they remove Spartan recruitment from Syracuse in 1.3?

[Scutarii]

Didn't they remove Spartan recruitment from Syracuse in 1.3?

No. You can still recruit Spartans in Syracuse.

[Sunbird Alkibijad]

One thing that ruins the phalanx for me is the fact that u can't make those crushing charges with the phalanx unit in RTW or the mods.
If u read some historical novels and works, like the 10000man march by Xenophont(can't remember the story name exactly), u will see the real impact of the phalanx:
Tighten up shoulder to shoulder, few ranks deep, full charge, and simply crush the enemy with the weight of men and their shields. The spears are there simply to control the thickness of the enemy line, yes they do the killing, but it was the CRUSH-SQUISH of the shields that put those spartan victories in the books for ages...
I miss that option for phalanx.
A nice thing for hoplite/phalanx/pike units would be a 3-way transformation:
loose formation -> grip formation(where they come close, form phalanx and can do the running charge) -> tight formation/real phalanx( where the unit compresses it self into a compact body of men, basically presenting a real wall or a hammer to use in crushing the foe.

And to reply to the initial thread start:
normal hoplites will do a great job against most average to high quality enemy units, u don't need the armoured hoplites until u can really afford to spend on them. I never use the bribes, or rarely, when I catch a lone enemy faction general/rebel general, with decent stats.
Even militia hoplites if massed for city defense can do a hell of a job at cutting the living out of much much more expensive units.
U need some archer, and perhaps skirmish/cavalry units, just for sweeping the fleeing enemy and loosening the enemy line.
Greeks=the easiest faction to play with.
one advice - drop the phalanx for the start of battle, if in the open. rush your phalanx units up-close and personal with the enemy battleline(yes, u will probably have a few of missile casualties) but this way, u close up too fast for all kinds of missile troops(including legionaries) to use their ranged power over your troops.
once u are close, form phalanx, push forward and clean them up.
or vice versa, make a semi-circle formation with natural obstacles protecting your flanks, and let the charging enemy do the dying on your kebab sticks!
peace!