Lesser Jihad

[Atatürk]

Through games like Medieval Total War and other sources of information such as books and other things I'm sure you all know what a Lesser Jihad is and what the rules are.

Now we all know about the conflict going on in the Middle East in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Who are the US soldiers fighting against? Arab Militants such as the Taliban.

Now the Taliban and other Arab Militants claim they are defending Islam, and that they are in a Jihad.

Do you agree with them?

[Tajir]

The Taliban are at their core, a Pashtun nationalist front cloaked in Islamism.

I don't want some long debate about Jihad because that subject is huge and the Islamic world is so disorganized that nothing and everything is called Jihad.

However, the Taliban are native to Afghanistan and should not be opposed by anyone, let alone foreign troops. And I don't think Westerners, especially Americans, should support let alone take part in the occupation of a foreign nation, unless they are either extremely stupid or...extremely stupid.

[Farnan]

The Taliban are at their core, a Pashtun nationalist front cloaked in Islamism.

No,

They are anti-Pashtun nationalist. The whole reason that Pakistan formed them was to fight Pashtun nationalism.

[Каие]

Moved to political academy.

bt there are factual errors in your OP...

[rusina]

Who are the US soldiers fighting against? Arab Militants such as the Taliban.

Now the Taliban and other Arab Militants claim they are defending Islam, and that they are in a Jihad.

You think that all muslims are arab!?

[Strattios]

Don't call them Arab as they are from all over the world.

I believe that any nation of power is obligated to control as much of the world as it can. That is the only world wide unity that i believe will truly take hold. A true power devastating the foundations of its neighbor and incorporating them. That's how the Romans brought so many people together. They said do what you want but there are some basic laws and customs that we have that you must follow. The end result is that the culture and ideas flowed from each side and they both became closer by fighting new enemies. Some areas had issues such as the highly independent Jews that refused some Roman customs. The result; they got crushed and dispersed and the area became quite loyal for centuries.

[Roman_Wolf]

Who are the US soldiers fighting against? Arab Militants such as the Taliban.

Now the Taliban and other Arab Militants claim they are defending Islam, and that they are in a Jihad.

Do you agree with them?

I really hate how some people think that Arabs and Muslims are the same thing. People, you want to talk about something, take a little time to learn something about it.

and btw, what Taliban does has nothing to do with Islam, or Jihad. Actually, they have done much harm to Islam.
but as for the militants in Iraq, Lebanon, Pallestine, then this issue is really messed up, as some of the militant are freedom fighters fighting for a good cause, while others are ing ers.

[Baron Vlad Felix]

I really hate how some people think that Arabs and Muslims are the same thing. People, you want to talk about something, take a little time to learn something about it.

and btw, what Taliban does has nothing to do with Islam, or Jihad. Actually, they have done much harm to Islam.
but as for the militants in Iraq, Lebanon, Pallestine, then this issue is really messed up, as some of the militant are freedom fighters fighting for a good cause, while others are ing ers.

I agree!

[jankren]

Jihad means struggle. Both USA and the Talibans are Jihading in Afghanistan.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

To fight non-Muslim invaders of Muslim lands is, according to the Quran and Sunnah, legitimate Jihad bis Saif whether it's the Taliban or Hezbollah that's fighting the persecution.

No,

They are anti-Pashtun nationalist. The whole reason that Pakistan formed them was to fight Pashtun nationalism.

Well, that's true if you're talking about Taliban v.1. However, the recent upsurge in Taliban activity has a lot to do with the belief of a "Pashtun revival" in the face of foreign occupation. Most of the "FM clerics" on FATA (Maulvi Fazulullah, Mangal Bagh, etc) had a very strong Pashtun nationalist message that went hand-in-hand with their call for Shari'ah. About your second statement, yes, the Pakhtoonistan issue was a tough nut to crack. However, secular-socialist Pashtun nationalism died with Abdul Ghaffar Khan im 1988.

Jihad means struggle. Both USA and the Talibans are Jihading in Afghanistan.

Except one is Jihad fi sabi Lillah and the other is "Jihad" Fi sabi Bush/dollar.

[Каие]

To fight non-Muslim invaders of Muslim lands is, according to the Quran and Sunnah, legitimate Jihad bis Saif whether it's the Taliban or Hezbollah that's fighting the persecution.

By which definition the Taliban is and has always been void. The Taliban was a tool of Pakistan to control the neighbouring country, making them as much invaders as NATO which came 10 years later.

The second Taliban, I.e. now, are the opposite of Jihad. The purpose of Jihad is to free Muslims from oppression and to get their rights. Fighting to restrict those rights is contradictory to Jihad, thus not Jihad. The Jihadis in this case are the ANA, fighting to preserve that very basic right to vote, and live your life properly.

In fact I consider it a dirty shame that the worlds 1.5 billion Muslims sat at home and did absolutley nothing to remove the Taliban, even in the wake of Massoud's practical begging. But now a lot of those same Muslims stand high and mighty declaring the Taliban legitimate.

If I was an Afghan, I'd spit on the face of the bastard who supports the Taliban to oppress him by saying they are freedom fighters and giving me 'freedom' from NATO occupation.

The truth is, as much as I detest the US foreign Policy and Imperialist ambition, the cold hard truth is, if there was no Taliban, no corrupt Pakistani ISI + 'madrasas' NATO wouldn't be there.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

By which definition the Taliban is and has always been void. The Taliban was a tool of Pakistan to control the neighbouring country, making them as much invaders as NATO which came 10 years later.

The second Taliban, I.e. now, are the opposite of Jihad. The purpose of Jihad is to free Muslims from oppression and to get their rights. Fighting to restrict those rights is contradictory to Jihad, thus not Jihad. The Jihadis in this case are the ANA, fighting to preserve that very basic right to vote, and live your life properly.

In fact I consider it a dirty shame that the worlds 1.5 billion Muslims sat at home and did absolutley nothing to remove the Taliban, even in the wake of Massoud's practical begging. But now a lot of those same Muslims stand high and mighty declaring the Taliban legitimate.

If I was an Afghan, I'd spit on the face of the bastard who supports the Taliban to oppress him by saying they are freedom fighters and giving me 'freedom' from NATO occupation.

The truth is, as much as I detest the US foreign Policy and Imperialist ambition, the cold hard truth is, if there was no Taliban, no corrupt Pakistani ISI + 'madrasas' NATO wouldn't be there.

No government in Afghanistan, from the time of the Soviet coup, has been free from foreign influence. It's no secret where the Northern Alliance uniforms and equipment came from. Yes, they, too, were a foreign proxy force. The difference between them and the Taliban was that the latter represented the ethnic group and religious wishes of the majority of Afghans.

I agree that the first time round, the Taliban banned computers, DVD-players and what not and that was completely wrong and Unislamic. However, if you stroll down Kabul, Kahdahar or Ghazni even today, you'll see that most Afghan men sport beards, most Afghan women still wear the burka or chadar and that most of them are still living the orthodox life.

Lastly, if there was no "corrupt ISI," I can assure you that RAW would be pulling the strings in Afghanistan right now. Pakistan can't afford to be surrounded, you know. The truth, in the end, is that Afghanistan was always a target for the US (and her poodles in NATO) because of its proximity to Iran and China. It provides forward bases closer to the sea than the central Asian states. Afghanistan is just too damn good to leave.

[Каие]

Its possible that they werent named Taliban but whatever...An Afghan could bring up more infos about this topic i guess...?

Nope, Taliban were the orphans and people who ran away from the war, then came back later. Most of the Mujahideen either went home, or fought with Massoud or one of the factions in the civil war.

No government in Afghanistan, from the time of the Soviet coup, has been free from foreign influence. It's no secret where the Northern Alliance uniforms and equipment came from. Yes, they, too, were a foreign proxy force. The difference between them and the Taliban was that the latter represented the ethnic group and religious wishes of the majority of Afghans.

You got polls to support that the Afghans agree with the Taliban's religion? and laws? I.e.these laws?

1- Complete ban on women's work outside their houses
including on female teachers, doctors, engineers and…
2- Complete ban on Women's movement outside their
houses without a mahram (father, brother or husband).
3- Ban on dealing with a male shopkeepers.
4- Ban on being treated by a male doctors.
5- Ban on studying at schools, universities or any other
educational institutions.
6- Compulsory wearing of long veil (Burqa) which covers
women head to toe.
7- Whipping, beating and verbally abuse of women who's
covers are not with accordance to what Taliban wants, or
the women is without her mahram.
8- Whipping women on public for having non-covered
ankles.
9- Public stoning of women for having sex outside
marriage (a number of lovers are stoned to death under
this rule.)
10- Ban on all use of make-ups. (a number of women's
finger have been cut for having painted nails).
11- Banning women from talking or shaking hands with
non-mahram males.
12- Banning women from laughing loudly (No stranger
should hear the voice of a women).
13- Ban on wearing high heel shoes which would produce
sound while walking as hearing the sound of a women's
step is forbidden.
14- Banning women's use of a taxi without a mahram.
15- Banning women's presence in radio, television or
gatherings of any kind.
16- Banning women play of any sport or entering a sport
center or club.
17- Banning women to ride a bicycle or a motorcycle even
with their mahrams.
18- Banning women's wearing of brightly colored clothes
(in their terms “sexually attracting colors”).
19- Banning women's gatherings on festive occasions
such as the Eids or for a recreational purpose.
20- Banning women from washing clothes next to rivers or
on public place.
16
on public place.
21- All place names with ‘women’ in it has been change for
example “women's garden” has been renamed “spring
garden”.
22- Banning women from appearing in the balcony of their
apartments or houses.
23- Compulsory painting of all windows so women could
not be seen from the outside.
24- Banning male tailors from take measurements or
sewing women's clothes.
25- Banning from the use of female public baths.
26- Public buses has been divided into separate ones for
male and females ban on travel in the same bus by men
and women.
27- ban on wearing pants with wide sleeves even under
their veil.
28- Ban on being photographed or filmed.
29- Ban on women's picture to be printed on newspapers
or books or hang in houses, shops,….
30- Ban on listening to music not only on women but on
men as well.
31- Total ban on watching movies, television, video on
everyone.

I have contrary evidence.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=1363276
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/as...513722774.html

In addition to 75% turnout at elections 16& more than in the UK. Also over1/4 female winners of seats!

I agree that the first time round, the Taliban banned computers, DVD-players and what not and that was completely wrong and Unislamic.

What you think they've changed?

However, if you stroll down Kabul, Kahdahar or Ghazni even today, you'll see that most Afghan men sport beards, most Afghan women still wear the burka or chadar and that most of them are still living the orthodox life.

Because the Taliban are still around! They have moles and agents everywhere. Did you not see the acid disfiguring the faces of the little girls going to school with no headscarf? Or the assassination of a aid worker for being Christian? The beard is irrelevant, men have always had beards around there, but the Burkha's are self explanatory. The Taliban is still there.

Lastly, if there was no "corrupt ISI," I can assure you that RAW would be pulling the strings in Afghanistan right now. Pakistan can't afford to be surrounded, you know. The truth, in the end, is that Afghanistan was always a target for the US (and her poodles in NATO) because of its proximity to Iran and China. It provides forward bases closer to the sea than the central Asian states. Afghanistan is just too damn good to leave.

I don't disagree, never trust the United States word, or official story. They had 6 years to take out the Taliban in the quest of freedom and democracy, and even had an opportunity to stop them earlier. Make no mistake about it the US is their for politics.

But at least they came. Where were the Muslims Sextus? Where the were they? Were were the Bosnian mujahideen who saved the European White Muslims? At home content, because it is a 'sin' to fight evil Muslims but not the 'infidel'.

Where were these Muslims in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and elsewhere talking of the evil that is NATO occupation and Israeli occupation with one tongue, and the glory of the Taliban and Osama with another tongue?

Nowhere. Not fit to practise the religion of Islam or call the Afghans their brothers. God help the future of Islam. But I let no terrorist sympathisers make a mistake about it, I saw Islamists ruin my home country and kill 200,000, and now I see them follow me here to the UK. All the while some of my fellow ''brothers'' are saying "they're the good guys".

/rant.

[Bayezid]

Well as far as I know the Taliban are not really loved among the afghani population.
Some afghani groups even fought them off.
But now Imagine that foreign soldiers patroll your streets and those who fought against them (soviets) 10 - 15 years before are doing it again. Well quite a sympathy booster isnt it?

You also must consider that the U.S. supported the Taliban against the soviets....in the end they used u.s weapons aganist u.s forces..

[Каие]

Actually no, the Taliban didn't exist in the 80's. The US didn't ever support them. The US actually supported Massoud against the Taliban, but rather half heartedly.

[Bayezid]

Actually no, the Taliban didn't exist in the 80's. The US didn't ever support them. The US actually supported Massoud against the Taliban, but rather half heartedly.

Its possible that they werent named Taliban but whatever...An Afghan could bring up more infos about this topic i guess...?

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Its possible that they werent named Taliban but whatever...An Afghan could bring up more infos about this topic i guess...?

If by "Taliban," you mean "Islamic fundamentalists" then yes, they were there during the Soviet occupation while others were indoctrinated via literature, clerics, etc sponsored by the CIA and ISI to fight the Communists in Afghanistan.

[Carpathian Wolf]

Um yes can I get a Diet Jihad?