What if no Divine Wind svd Japan from the Mongols

[theking994]

Originally posted by deathdoom56@May 2 2005, 11:41 AM
Japanese Samurais wouldnt fit within the far more disiplined Mongol army. They will be pretty worthless except as cannonfodder. Besides how are the Mongols going to hire the samurai? Capture them one by one? Besides, the Samurai are dedicated and bound to the land given to them by the shogunate for life, they cant just go off join some Mongol army, that will be dishonourable.

Didn't you just say they fought only for the cash they got? :blink

[Xiaodun]

Originally posted by theking994@May 2 2005, 12:15 PM
Didn't you just say they fought only for the cash they got? :blink

They were given plots of land and reward from the government depending on how much they fought. They were thus bound to the shogunate by tradition and oath. They werent some bunch of mercinaries that you find in bars, they were usually land owners but when the shogunate was at war, the Hojo would summon the samurai to the natural fortress of Kamakura and set out for war.

[Osceola]

I believe thought it would be somewhat costly, they would take the island sooner or later. BUT, remember the Japanese are fanatically devoted to Nippon. Resistance, rebellion, that kinda thing. They would take it back sooner or later. Those ninja werent for nothing..

[Xiaodun]

Originally posted by The Sword of Cao Cao@May 7 2005, 01:11 AM
I believe thought it would be somewhat costly, they would take the island sooner or later. BUT, remember the Japanese are fanatically devoted to Nippon. Resistance, rebellion, that kinda thing. They would take it back sooner or later. Those ninja werent for nothing..

Well, thats why noone has ever been able to launch a successful invasion of the Japanese mainland.

And the sea of course.

The mongols would have needed AT LEAST 200,000 men to conquer Japan, and maybe half a million to occupy it.

[Mehmed II]

plus what is there really, for a ruler...say that they somehow came up with this massive fleet and perhaps came up with their strongest soldiers, who are cavalry men, and crushed the hojo armies in couple of battles...but the resistance would undoubtedly go on and Japan isn't a place where you invade a land and the quick cash you get isn't worth to fight such a formidable enemy as this.

[Xiaodun]

Originally posted by Mehmed II@May 7 2005, 02:04 AM
plus what is there really, for a ruler...say that they somehow came up with this massive fleet and perhaps came up with their strongest soldiers, who are cavalry men, and crushed the hojo armies in couple of battles...but the resistance would undoubtedly go on and Japan isn't a place where you invade a land and the quick cash you get isn't worth to fight such a formidable enemy as this.

Actually, Kubilai thought that Japan (or rather Jipangu), was a land filled with gold.

And he was right to a degree. There was such gold in Japan that the gold production by Toyotomi Hideyoshi rivaled that of the gold in the Incas. In fact, Toyotomi Hideyoshi built a golden tea room. On top of that, Japanese lands (were agriculture was possible) are tremendously fertile.

Of course, as you said its not worth mastering a massive army and navy, defeating somehow about 300,000 well trained samurai warriors, conquering one of the most proud people on earth, and attempting to annex the islands.

[Mehmed II]

plus what is there really, for a ruler...say that they somehow came up with this massive fleet and perhaps came up with their strongest soldiers, who are cavalry men, and crushed the hojo armies in couple of battles...but the resistance would undoubtedly go on and Japan isn't a place where you invade a land and the quick cash you get isn't worth to fight such a formidable enemy as this.

These all unless they take some extreme measures against the Hojo's of course, like slaughtering everything basically.... Still, I don't think I've got the solution. The invasion seems reasonable if Kublai goes crazy and puts his greatest armies on his greatest navy and attempts to invade an island he 's never seen in his life, but the achievement of a successful occupation seems highly unlikely unless they come up with something new...

[Xiaodun]

I dont think the Mongols could have gotten cavalry over here though.

The ships the Mongols came in were little better than the river boats that are used in the Yuann, Yutez, ah however you spell it. How are they going to carry horses in them? I could however, imagine Kubilai sending in a million CHinese auxillaries to bog down the samurai.

Mehmed a quick question, what do you think would have happened if the Mongols slaugtered everyone who resisted like they did before? Personally, I think the Hojo would just have gotten even more support from the population, but what do you think?

[Mehmed II]

Mehmed a quick question, what do you think would have happened if the Mongols slaugtered everyone who resisted like they did before? Personally, I think the Hojo would just have gotten even more support from the population, but what do you think?

No idea, that's why I'm uncertain. That method certainly worked in Persia and Asia Minor, since that method alone is what created their legacy..who knows? Perhaps, if mongols came and turned one major japanese city into dust, the hardcore nippon ideology would get softened? perhaps like the japanese surrender after the a bomb?