The Mystical Side of the Acropolis

[Starlightman]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...42#post4126842


The Mystical Side of the Acropolis

What’s so special about the Acropolis besides some nice sculptures and fine lines on these buildings?

We think that the Parthenon is a symmetrical, orthogonal structure, following the principles of Euclidean geometry with pinpoint accuracy...

maybe,maybe not....let see some arguments of some people...

First of all, the design of the temple is… out if any concept of linearity. There is not a straight, parallel or or vertical line, in the Parthenon an this was done deliberately since the intentions of Callicrates and Ictinus were that the temple looks perfect to the eye, and that means that they had to counter the visual distortions and tricks of the light made by the perspective view of their work from various angles. So the Parthenon is virtually perfect .
But not in the sense of a modern engineer. That’s the reason that various attempts to replicate the monument have been proved futile The Parthenon cannot be replicated because it’s the… perfect geometric anomaly.

Also, very few know that the monument’s pillars and columns are not… parallel but converge and the funny thing is that the columns of the smaller dimensions converge on a different height that the ones of the larger dimension of its base. Just look at the following sketch which was designed by Mr Korres who is the manager of the restoration works on the Acropolis:

According to this drawing the Parthenon’s columns converge at 2200m (long side) and 4930m (short side) respectively. Just what the significance of these numbers is, (especially if translated in ancient Greek feet) we don’t know yet. But then again this convergence and who talked about pyramids ah… yes, the pyramids, like Chufu’s great pyramid in Egypt which has a height of… 150m, almost as tall as the Acropolis .




And since the above may appear to be simply conjectures, let’s thicken the plot a little.

Have we ever heard of Numerology? It’s a science that explores the quantifiable relationships between measurable quantities if any type of quantification can be applied to them. In addition, numerology uses number systems and numerical attributions as a means of philosophical interpretation of various events or outcomes of events that can be expressed mathematically or assume mathematical properties in their interpretation

The father of the axiomatic statements of this particular science is the ancient Greek Mathematician and Philosopher Pythagoras, although nowadays, there are serious studies from scholars and academics from all over the world that followed his work. Over the centuries. A large part of numerology deals with replacing the letters of an alphabets with numbers and in fact, before the decimal numbering system which was introduced by the Arabs, the numbers were represented by letters, so conversion was much easier .

Another aspect of numerology had to do with the metric relationships of various temples and their relative distances, as well as their exact locations on a map. We can actually refer to this type of research with the term "semantic geometry" when it applies to information being encrypted in a building in the form of mathematical relations, especially if these correspond to phrases or words when converted from their numerical equivalents.

Before we proceed further, I need to point out that much of the research in the field has been conducted by a Greek Airforce officer, Dr Theophanis Manias who had studied topography in the National Technical University of Athens (NTUA). (BTW: Theophania in the greek language is “Epiphany” ). The work of this special person has been mentioned by many researchers including even Erich Von Daniken, a controversial writer from Switzerland who, in one of his books (In the name of Zeus, German title – Im Namen von Jeus, - 1999) makes an extensive reference on the work of Dr Manias.

The work of Mr Manias is actually strictly scientific and he proves that the Pythagorean mathematics were used in the construction of ALL structures of the Ancient world, both in terms of their dimensions, as well as the geometric and geodetic relationships they had with the other structures near them, or located in distances very far away. His method is called “Geodetic Triangulation” although I doubt that he even took the pain for finding a name for it…

Well, despite the fact that the Encarta Encyclopaedia considers numerology as a “pseudo-science”, it seems that the study of the Bible, the Jewish “Tora” and the Ancient Greek architecture involves his type of “pseudo” science, which finds applications from the Ley lines to the locations of the Medieval temples and Churches in France.

So, read on:

-As mentioned above, all the dimensions of the Parthenon are inter-related and constitute mathematical expressions based on the numeric system that converts the ancient Greek alphabet letters into numbers, and the Pythagorian mathematical principles.
Seems to be a strong relationship between the Parthenon which belongs to the Owl-eyed Athena (ΓΛΑΥΚΩΠΙΣ ΑΘΗΝΗ=92 according to the Pythagorean numerology), with the owl being the symbol of wisdom, and having a direct relationship with 10 (which is a number of deity) times 92 = 920 which is also the number that corresponds to the sum of the numbers of the letters of the words KΛΙΜΑΞ ΘΕΟΥ “Divine Stairway” (or stairway to heaven), which is inscripted with hieroglyphs on the front of Chufu’s Pyramid.

Funny thing that the volumes of Parthenon’s virtual Pyramid and Chufu’s Puramid have a relationship 1:2 which means that the Chufu’s Pyramid works as a diapason of the energy and vibrations of the Parthenon. I mean, I knew that Greeks and Egyptians were close but not that close.

In addition, there are relationships between the dimensions of Parthenon and various names or sentences. The interesting thing however (since I believe that you got the idea) are the geometric relationships between the Acropolis and many of the other holy places of Ancient Greece. Take as an example the next sketch which I devised using a map from the Greek translation of the book of Peter Connolly and Hazel Dodge, The Ancient city:

What is seen here is a diamond consisting of two isosceles triangles formed if we connect the sites of the Ancient Greek temples in Athens (Parthenon), Cape Sounion (Poseidon’s temple), Afaia Aigina temple in the island of Aigina (Athena) and Megara.



The truth is that Dr Manias’s maps are far more complex. Let’s see some of them:

One of the dozens of Dr Manias maps on Attica’s holy places. I used this one because the names are in French so that you can better understand what’s going on




Next comes a map with some of the geodetic relationships of the Parthenon with the rest of the Greek holy places (oracles, temples etc)



And finally, part of a map made by another Author, Mr Alexiou, based on Mr Manias’s notes, depicting Chufu’s pyramid and some od its “geodetic” relations with holy places in Greece and Turkey


The early Greeks, in their speculation and theorizing, ranged from the flat disc advocated by Homer to Pythagoras' spherical figure-an idea supported one hundred years later by Aristotle. Pythagoras was a mathematician and to him the most perfect figure was a sphere. He reasoned that the gods would create a perfect figure and therefore the earth was created to be spherical in shape. Anaximenes, an early Greek scientist, believed strongly that the earth was rectangular in shape.

Since the spherical shape was the most widely supported during the Greek Era, efforts to determine its size followed. Plato determined the circumference of the earth to be 40,000 miles while Archimedes estimated 30,000 miles. Plato's figure was a guess and Archimedes' a more conservative approximation. Meanwhile, in Egypt, a Greek scholar and philosopher, Eratosthenes, set out to make more explicit measurements.

He had observed that on the day of the summer solstice, the midday sun shone to the bottom of a well in the town of Syene (Aswan). Figure 1. At the same time, he observed the sun was not directly overhead at Alexandria; instead, it cast a shadow with the vertical equal to 1/50th of a circle (7° 12'). To these observations, Eratosthenes applied certain "known" facts (1) that on the day of the summer solstice, the midday sun was directly over the line of the summer Tropic Zone (Tropic of Cancer)-Syene was therefore concluded to be on this line; (2) the linear distance between Alexandria and Syene was 500 miles; (3) Alexandria and Syene lay on a direct northsouth line.

ERATOSTHENES' METHOD FOR DETERMINING THE SIZE OF THE EARTH

From these observations and "known" facts, Eratosthenes concluded that, since the angular deviation of the sun from the vertical at Alexandria was also the angle of the subtended arc, the linear distance between Alexandria and Syene was 1/50 of the circumference of the earth or 50 x 500 = 25,000 miles. A currently accepted value for the earth's circumference at the Equator is 24,901 miles, based upon the equatorial radius of the World Geodetic System (Chapter VIII). The actual unit of measure used by Eratosthenes was called the "stadia." No one knows for sure what the stadia that he used is in today's units. The measurements given above in miles were derived using one stadia equal to one-tenth statute mile.

It is remarkable that such accuracy was obtained in view of the fact that most of the "known" facts and his observations were incorrect: (1) although it is true that the sun at noon is directly overhead at the Tropic of Cancer on the day of the summer solstice, it was erroneously concluded that Syene lay on the line. Actually, Syene is 37 miles to the north; (2) the true distance between Alexandria and Syene is 453 miles and not 500; (3) Syene lies 3° 30' east of the meridian of Alexandria; (4) the difference of latitude between Alexandria and Syene is 7° 5' rather than 7° 12' as Eratosthenes had concluded.

Another ancient measurement of the size of the earth was made by the Greek, Posidonius. He noted that a certain star was hidden from view in most parts of Greece but that it just grazed the horizon at Rhodes. Posidonius measured the elevation of the same star at Alexandria and determined that the angle was 1/48th of circle. Assuming the distance from Alexandria to Rhodes to be 500 miles, he computed the circumference of the earth as 24,000 miles. While both his measurements were approximations when combined, one error compensated for another and he achieved a fairly accurate result.

Especially with regards to the case of maps, the question is: How could people that did not have access to satellites and/or other similar means, to pinpoint locations with such accuracy and create these “geodetic” or however else they are called, relations?

What also is astounding is how the Greeks made these miracles with the technology available at their times.

And allow me to say with all the awareness that the Hellenes in this forum may call me nuts()

Anyway I am waiting for your (civil) replies, on this one.

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/PUBS_LIB/Geo...n/TR80003A.HTM

[Lord Feloric's Ambassador]

My Lord doesn't have access to satellites or any space technology, but yet he was still able to send me here. You don't need highly advanced technology to accomplish amazing things.

[Mythos]

I find it impossible to believe. If someone could make structures in locations with such geometric accuracy, why the heck couldn't they create a decent map of the same areas? Have you seen those ancient maps of the mediterranean or the world? Even basic features are wrong.

Also, I like the circle business. Ancient Greece had about a 1000 city states and god knows how many temples, oracles and so on. It is a mathematical certainty that a circle centered on Athens (which is near the center of the geographic area of Greece) is bound to pass along some major sites.

As for the Parthenon, well, Iktinos and Callicrates must have been excellent architects and engineers. And they probably were ball busters when it came to accuracy.

[TheKwas]

Sounds like you could write a good Dan Brown novel. Your argument is mysterious, is complex, is flashy, is grandeur in scope, appeases people's romanticizing of the past, appears to be well-researched, is concerning a subject few laypeople know anything about or are willing to research in-depth about, and yet is so radically insane that no self-respecting expert in the field could read it without smacking his head and shedding a tear for humanity's gullibility.

Good thread.

[Starlightman]

Sounds like you could write a good Dan Brown novel. Your argument is mysterious, is complex, is flashy, is grandeur in scope, appeases people's romanticizing of the past, appears to be well-researched, is concerning a subject few laypeople know anything about or are willing to research in-depth about, and yet is so radically insane that no self-respecting expert in the field could read it without smacking his head and shedding a tear for humanity's gullibility.

Good thread.

when i find this it is difficult to believe it so the best way to find something is to hear other people opinion about this...and i agree with you....

it is a good story for Dan Brown's next Best seller....

[Sphere]

The ackward geometry of the parthenon is nothing terribly mystical. I heard however, that the tilting back of the columns (and tapering of the columns IIRC) was to create an optical illusion that they are taller. This is because when looking at the building from ground level with the columns tilted back it makes top of the column look slighly smaller (because it is further away from your eye). You mind however can interrupt this as being smaller (and thus further away) due to being higher. And since you mind is predispostioned to assume the columns to be parrallel and straight, it concludes the columns to be taller than in reality.

[Simetrical]

But not in the sense of a modern engineer. That’s the reason that various attempts to replicate the monument have been proved futile The Parthenon cannot be replicated because it’s the… perfect geometric anomaly.

What evidence do you have that "attempts to replicate the monument have been proved futile"?

Also, very few know that the monument’s pillars and columns are not… parallel but converge and the funny thing is that the columns of the smaller dimensions converge on a different height that the ones of the larger dimension of its base. Just look at the following sketch which was designed by Mr Korres who is the manager of the restoration works on the Acropolis:

According to this drawing the Parthenon’s columns converge at 2200m (long side) and 4930m (short side) respectively.

To within what margin of error? What's the variance of the individual columns from exact convergence in each case?

Just what the significance of these numbers is, (especially if translated in ancient Greek feet) we don’t know yet.

Maybe they were picked arbitrarily?

Have we ever heard of Numerology? It’s a science that explores the quantifiable relationships between measurable quantities if any type of quantification can be applied to them.

Numerology is not a science. It's the attempt to find patterns where patterns demonstrably cannot exist. A numerologist would find mystical significance in a set of numbers generated by quantum processes guaranteed random by the laws of physics, as long as you told them the numbers actually came from an ancient Sumerian religious text or something. Numerology makes few predictions, and those it does make range from trivial to wrong to, occasionally, right by sheer accident.

In addition, numerology uses number systems and numerical attributions as a means of philosophical interpretation of various events or outcomes of events that can be expressed mathematically or assume mathematical properties in their interpretation

As a mathematician, I'm going to say that practically no numerologist knows diddly-squat about mathematics. Especially statistics.

A large part of numerology deals with replacing the letters of an alphabets with numbers and in fact, before the decimal numbering system which was introduced by the Arabs, the numbers were represented by letters, so conversion was much easier .

In Greece they were, and places influence by Greece. Not elsewhere. The Romans represented their numbers by letters, but only using a small subset of letters (IVXLCDM).

Before we proceed further, I need to point out that much of the research in the field has been conducted by a Greek Airforce officer, Dr Theophanis Manias who had studied topography in the National Technical University of Athens (NTUA). (BTW: Theophania in the greek language is “Epiphany” ). The work of this special person has been mentioned by many researchers including even Erich Von Daniken, a controversial writer from Switzerland who, in one of his books (In the name of Zeus, German title – Im Namen von Jeus, - 1999) makes an extensive reference on the work of Dr Manias.

Do any of these people have high-level degrees in relevant subjects such as history or mathematics? What are their credentials? "Studying topography" is not exactly a compelling qualification for much of anything. Why should we believe them?

The work of Mr Manias is actually strictly scientific[/color]

Then what are some of the predictions and falsifiable statements he makes? How could they be tested or falsified?

Well, despite the fact that the Encarta Encyclopaedia considers numerology as a “pseudo-science”, it seems that the study of the Bible, the Jewish “Tora” and the Ancient Greek architecture involves his type of “pseudo” science, which finds applications from the Ley lines to the locations of the Medieval temples and Churches in France.

Are you suggesting that, to the contrary, traditional Jewish study of the Bible is science? As far as ancient Greek architecture goes, do mainstream historians of Greek architecture accept that numerology was important to it, or only a few underqualified people with no credentials who are rejected by virtually all conventional historians as crackpots?

Seems to be a strong relationship between the Parthenon which belongs to the Owl-eyed Athena (ΓΛΑΥΚΩΠΙΣ ΑΘΗΝΗ=92 according to the Pythagorean numerology), with the owl being the symbol of wisdom, and having a direct relationship with 10 (which is a number of deity) times 92 = 920 which is also the number that corresponds to the sum of the numbers of the letters of the words KΛΙΜΑΞ ΘΕΟΥ “Divine Stairway” (or stairway to heaven), which is inscripted with hieroglyphs on the front of Chufu’s Pyramid.

Except that this only works because you chose that exact appellation of Athena out of probably dozens or hundreds of variations you come up with; and that exact pyramid, out of all the pyramids in Egypt; and that exact phrase on Chufu's Pyramid (I'll take your word that it's there) out of all the other text there; and that exact Greek translation of the phrase; and even with all this contortion you still had to multiply by ten with the vague justification that it's "a number of deity".

This kind of "logic" can be used to justify any sort of assertion at all. I don't know Greek, but I can use similar arguments to prove that the Bible predicted some totally ahistorical event if you like (since I do know Hebrew, and gematria).

Funny thing that the volumes of Parthenon’s virtual Pyramid and Chufu’s Puramid have a relationship 1:2

To what margin of error? What are their exact volumes, what source are you getting them from, and how is that source computing them?

What is seen here is a diamond consisting of two isosceles triangles formed if we connect the sites of the Ancient Greek temples in Athens (Parthenon), Cape Sounion (Poseidon’s temple), Afaia Aigina temple in the island of Aigina (Athena) and Megara.

Why did you choose those four places out of all the thousands of places of significance in Greece? If you have enough points randomly scattered across a plane, it will be possible to connect four of them with a rhombus to any desired degree of precision.

The early Greeks, in their speculation and theorizing, ranged from the flat disc advocated by Homer to Pythagoras' spherical figure-an idea supported one hundred years later by Aristotle. Pythagoras was a mathematician and to him the most perfect figure was a sphere. He reasoned that the gods would create a perfect figure and therefore the earth was created to be spherical in shape. Anaximenes, an early Greek scientist, believed strongly that the earth was rectangular in shape.

Since the spherical shape was the most widely supported during the Greek Era, efforts to determine its size followed. Plato determined the circumference of the earth to be 40,000 miles while Archimedes estimated 30,000 miles. Plato's figure was a guess and Archimedes' a more conservative approximation. Meanwhile, in Egypt, a Greek scholar and philosopher, Eratosthenes, set out to make more explicit measurements.

He had observed that on the day of the summer solstice, the midday sun shone to the bottom of a well in the town of Syene (Aswan). Figure 1. At the same time, he observed the sun was not directly overhead at Alexandria; instead, it cast a shadow with the vertical equal to 1/50th of a circle (7° 12'). To these observations, Eratosthenes applied certain "known" facts (1) that on the day of the summer solstice, the midday sun was directly over the line of the summer Tropic Zone (Tropic of Cancer)-Syene was therefore concluded to be on this line; (2) the linear distance between Alexandria and Syene was 500 miles; (3) Alexandria and Syene lay on a direct northsouth line.

ERATOSTHENES' METHOD FOR DETERMINING THE SIZE OF THE EARTH

From these observations and "known" facts, Eratosthenes concluded that, since the angular deviation of the sun from the vertical at Alexandria was also the angle of the subtended arc, the linear distance between Alexandria and Syene was 1/50 of the circumference of the earth or 50 x 500 = 25,000 miles. A currently accepted value for the earth's circumference at the Equator is 24,901 miles, based upon the equatorial radius of the World Geodetic System (Chapter VIII). The actual unit of measure used by Eratosthenes was called the "stadia." No one knows for sure what the stadia that he used is in today's units. The measurements given above in miles were derived using one stadia equal to one-tenth statute mile.

None of this is very mystical. The Greeks knew a fair bit of geometry, that much is undisputed.

It is remarkable that such accuracy was obtained in view of the fact that most of the "known" facts and his observations were incorrect: (1) although it is true that the sun at noon is directly overhead at the Tropic of Cancer on the day of the summer solstice, it was erroneously concluded that Syene lay on the line. Actually, Syene is 37 miles to the north; (2) the true distance between Alexandria and Syene is 453 miles and not 500; (3) Syene lies 3° 30' east of the meridian of Alexandria; (4) the difference of latitude between Alexandria and Syene is 7° 5' rather than 7° 12' as Eratosthenes had concluded.

Except that you just said yourself that we aren't sure what a stadia is equal to, so all you can say is that your particular choice of value for it happens to make the answer come out fairly accurate. Other choices would make it a lot less accurate. Why did you choose a tenth of a mile, except that it made Eratosthenes look especially good?

Another ancient measurement of the size of the earth was made by the Greek, Posidonius. He noted that a certain star was hidden from view in most parts of Greece but that it just grazed the horizon at Rhodes. Posidonius measured the elevation of the same star at Alexandria and determined that the angle was 1/48th of circle. Assuming the distance from Alexandria to Rhodes to be 500 miles, he computed the circumference of the earth as 24,000 miles. While both his measurements were approximations when combined, one error compensated for another and he achieved a fairly accurate result.

Yep, no objections here. The Greeks were fairly clever with geometry.

Especially with regards to the case of maps, the question is: How could people that did not have access to satellites and/or other similar means, to pinpoint locations with such accuracy and create these “geodetic” or however else they are called, relations?

I have a solution: they didn't. They were made up by crackpot numerologists a couple of millennia later, on the principle that you can always find numerical relationships between anything you want if you're willing to look hard enough. If you're going to claim that they did do things to such accuracy, it's up to you to show how that was possible.

Sounds like you could write a good Dan Brown novel. Your argument is mysterious, is complex, is flashy, is grandeur in scope, appeases people's romanticizing of the past, appears to be well-researched, is concerning a subject few laypeople know anything about or are willing to research in-depth about, and yet is so radically insane that no self-respecting expert in the field could read it without smacking his head and shedding a tear for humanity's gullibility.

Pretty much, yeah.

[Lucifer Sam]

i got to numerology, this isnt science.

you can make numbers mean anything if you segment and fiddle with them.



the ancient greeks were brilliant mathemeticians, this isnt news, we have only a small idea as what the greeks did and didnt know, what there techniques were or even what there methodology was, but what we can certainly say is many many years of careful work and tireless effort went into making the acropolis, and while we may not make anything so special in our lifetime, im sure that eventually we will.

[Starlightman]

Dear Mr Simetrical...

i am not a mathematician,neither historian...only a Engineer, i must thank you for your arguments about this post,i know how little time you have...however,like i wrote...
"maybe,maybe not....let see some arguments of some people..."

"when i find this it is difficult to believe it so the best way to find something is to hear other people opinion about this."

so...everything above are not MY arguments but Mr Manios work...and cause i am curious about this i post it here...

from a little searching....
Eratosthenes' measurement of the Earth's circumference

Eratosthenes knew that on the summer solstice at local noon in the Ancient Egyptian city of Swenet (known in Greek as Syene) on the Tropic of Cancer, the sun would appear at the zenith, directly overhead. He also knew, from measurement, that in his hometown of Alexandria, the angle of elevation of the Sun would be 1/50 of a full circle (7°12') south of the zenith at the same time. Assuming that Alexandria was due north of Syene he concluded that the distance from Alexandria to Syene must be 1/50 of the total circumference of the Earth. His estimated distance between the cities was 5000 stadia (about 500 geographical or nautical miles). He rounded the result to a final value of 700 stadia per degree, which implies a circumference of 252,000 stadia. The exact size of the stadion he used is frequently argued. The common Attic stadion was about 185 m, which would imply a circumference of 46,620 km, i.e. 16.3% too large. However, if we assume that Eratosthenes used the "Egyptian stadion" of about 157.5 m, his measurement turns out to be 39,690 km, an error of less than 1%.

Although Eratosthenes' method was well founded, the accuracy of his calculation was inherently limited. The accuracy of Eratosthenes' measurement would have been reduced by the fact that Syene is slightly north of the Tropic of Cancer, is not directly south of Alexandria, and the Sun appears as a disk located at a finite distance from the Earth instead of as a point source of light at an infinite distance. There are other sources of experimental error: the greatest limitation to Eratosthenes' method was that, in antiquity, overland distance measurements were not reliable, especially for travel along the non-linear Nile which was traveled primarily by boat. So the accuracy of Eratosthenes' size of the earth is surprising.

Eratosthenes' experiment was highly regarded at the time, and his estimate of the Earth’s size was accepted for hundreds of years afterwards. His method was used by Posidonius about 150 years later.


The mysterious astronomical distances

Eusebius of Caesarea in his Preparatio Evangelica includes a brief chapter of three sentences on celestial distances (Book XV, Chapter 53). He states simply that Eratosthenes found the distance to the sun to be "σταδίων μυριάδας τετρακοσίας και οκτωκισμυρίας" (literally "of stadia myriads 400 and 80,000") and the distance to the moon to be 780,000 stadia. The expression for the distance to the sun has been translated either as 4,080,000 stadia (1903 translation by E. H. Gifford), or as 804,000,000 stadia (edition of Edouard des Places, dated 1974-1991). The meaning depends on whether Eusebius meant 400 myriad plus 80,000 or "400 and 80,000" myriad.

This testimony of Eusebius is dismissed by the scholarly Dictionary of Scientific Biography. It is true that the distance Eusebius quotes for the moon is much too low (about 144,000 km) and Eratosthenes should have been able to do much better than this since he knew the size of the Earth and Aristarchus of Samos had already found[citation needed] the ratio of the Moon's distance to the size of the Earth. But if what Eusebius wrote was pure fiction, then it is difficult to explain the fact that, using the Greek, or Olympic, stadium of 185 metres, the figure of 804 million stadia that he quotes for the distance to the Sun comes to 149 million kilometres. The difference between this and the modern accepted value is less than 1%.


Pyramid is not something new, it is just that the Egyptians are more famous.

On Greek soil, at Hellenikon and Ligourio west of Athens in the Argolid region, are two limestone pyramids that are stylistically very much like those at Giza near Cairo. The big difference is size; the Greek pyramids are only the size of a large room compared to the Great Pyramid's height (with capstone) of almost 500 feet. When excavations were made around the Greek pyramids in the early 1900s, pottery fragments from the Fourth Century B.C. were found, and it was presumed that the pyramids were also constructed then; that is, about the time of Alexander the Great. Recent dating of crystals from internal surfaces of the limestone blocks using thermoluminescence puts the construction times back two millennia. The Hellenikon pyramid dates to 2730 B.C.; the Ligourio, to 2260 B.C. This means that the Greek pyramids were built in roughly the same time frame as the Egyptian pyramids.
Why would the ancient Greeks want to build miniature pyramids? The classical scholar Pausanias wrote in the Second Century A.D. that the Hellenikon pyramid was a cenotaph for the dead fallen in a fratricidal battle 4,000 years ago. Nobody believed his story until now.
(Hammond, Norman; "Did the Early Greeks Simply Copy the Pyramids of Egypt?" London Times, August 1, 1997. Cr. A.C.A. Silk. Also: Barnett, Adrian; "Written in Stone," New Scientist, p. 11, October 4, 1997.)



Pyramids are everywhere in the world,
China has pyramids also.
Latin America has pyramids.
The latest discovery is in Visoko, Bosnia.


It is not well known that there are Greek pyramids . There are more than 16 pyramids spread all over the Greece. The oldest one is the pyramid of Hellinikon

Before the First Pyramids - The mysterious era preceding the ancient pyramids

(4th edition - February 2008) by A.O. Kime

European-Pyramids | Greece

The existence of pyramids in Greece was unknown to most people until recently, and even today not much is known about them. For example, the pyramid of Hellenikon, near Argos, is older than the Pyramids of Egypt. In fact, Pausanias (in Graeciae Descriptio) says that this pyramid was a memorial in rememberance of the first battle fought by soldiers bearing shields!

Pyramids in Greece are usually smaller than the ones found in Egypt (exeptions are a few sculpted pyramids) and they are in a rather poor state.
There in no clear evidence as to the use of pyramids in antiquity. Archeologists believe that they are memorials or observation-communication towers (phryctoriums). Only for the pyramid at Helenikon there is a reference by Pausanias for its probable purpose.
Most Greek pyramids have not been studied yet, with the exception of the pyramids at Hellenikon and Ligourion which were dated and studied by Dr I. Lyritzis of the Academy of Athens.


The ''Pyramid'' of Hellenikon



"At the South-eastern edge of the plain of Argolid, near the springs of the Erasinos river (nowadays 'Kephalari') and on the main arterial road which in antiquity lead from Argos to Tegea and the rest of Arcadia and Kynouria, there is a small fort at present known as the 'pyramid' of Hellenikon. According to evidence from the excavations and the typical features of the structure which dates to the end of the 4th century B.C. and not to the prehistoric period, as some scientists have been recently willing to demonstrate. During the later years of Antiquity, the ''Pyramid'' was considered as a burial monument , a ''polyandreion'', while nowadays there is no doubt that it was a fort of the type of small strong-holds which controlled the arterial roads and which are known from other regions of the Argolid.

It has the shape of a tour with its external sides sloping and surrounding a rectangular building of total dimensions 7,03 by 9,07 m. These external walls, which rise with a gradient of 60o up to 3,50 m high become vertical to in order to support the floors of the building. The main entrance of the monument is situated at its eastern side, that is the side which is turned towards the bay of the Argolid. From inside this gate a narrow corridor which leads to a smaller entrance, opened on the southern wall of the main space, a square room with sides about 7 m long.

This impressive monument is built entirely from the gray limestone of the district with large blocks in a trapezoidal and partially polygonal system.

Excavations of the monument whose stone structure had remained stable for 2400 years, were undertaken by Th. Wiegand in 1901, but mostly by L.Lord in 1938. Both published the results of their excavations in specific monographies.

The Academy of Athens has published results of dating the Hellenikon pyramid( 9-2-1995). Dating measurements were performed by the Laboratory of Archaeometry at Dimokritos Resarch Institute in Athens and by the Nuclear Dating Laboratory of the department of Physics at the University of Edinbourgh in Scotland. The method of Optical Thermoluminescence was employed to date samples taken from the pyramid. It was determined that the pyramid was erected at about 2720 B.C. It must be noted that, according to these results, the Hellenikon pyramid predates, by at least 100 years, the oldest Egyptian pyramid (Djoser - 2620 B.C.) and by 170 years the Great Pyramid of Cheops (Khufu - 2550 B.C.) .

Although the pyramoid structures of Argolis are of great interest, writen references are rather scarce Pausanias (2nd century A.D.) regards the structure as a "polyandrium" i.e. a group burial monument for the citizens of Argos (Perieg. Korinthiaka: 2, 25, 7).

In particular, for the pyramid at Hellenikon writes: " ...walking on the road away from from Argos towards Epidaurus there is a pyramid structure on our right, it is adorned with shields in the Argolic style..." and he continues to say that the pyramid was erected after the fratricidal battle between the twin brothers, Proetus and Akrisius, during a war of succesion following the death of their father, king Avas of Argos. The battle ended in a deadlock and the pyramid was erected as a burial monument in honour of the fallen in this battle.

Pausanias also says that, in this battle, shields (aspides) were employed for the first time. This later remark by Pausanias is indicative of the great antiquity of the structure. "

http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/myste...kpyramids.html

Greek Arithmosophy

is a mathematical system that uses lexarithmes ( from the Greek words ΛΕΞΙΣ - lexis - word and ΑΡΙΘΜΟΣ - arithmos -number).

This system according to Pythagoras teaching: "that everything can be described with numbers!!!"

In Greek Arithmosophy every letter corresponds to a number.

Have in mind that the Greek Alphabet is also a mathematical one. Every letter was at the same time also a number.

for example:

units

Α (ΑΛΦΑ -alpha)= 1, Β(ΒΗΤΑ -vita) = 2, Γ (ΓΑΜΜΑ -gama)= 3, Δ (ΔΕΛΤΑ-delta) = 4, Ε (ΕΨΙΛΟΝ -epsilon)= 5

tens

Ι (ΙΩΤΑ- iota)= 10, Κ (ΚΑΠΠΑ- kapa)= 20 Λ (ΛΑΜΔΑ-lamda)= 30
Μ (ΜΙ - mi)= 40

hundreds

Ρ (ΡΟ -ro)= 100, Σ (ΣΙΓΜΑ - sigma)= 200, Τ (ΤΑΥ-taf)= 300.

So we have words that are the total of its letters. And if some words have the same total this means that these words has a relation and are some how connected to each other.

For example:

ΠΡΟΜΗΘΕΥΣ (Prometheus)
Π=80, Ρ=100,Ο=70, Μ=40, Η=8, Θ=9, Ε=5, Υ=400, Σ=200 =912
ΚΑΥΚΑΣΟΣ (Caucasus)
Κ=20, Α=1, Υ=400, Κ=20, Α=1, Σ=200, Ο=70, Σ=200 = 912

ΠΡΟΜΗΘΕΥΣ (Prometheus) = ΚΑΥΚΑΣΟΣ (Caucasus) = 912

ΘΕΟΣ (THEOS - GOD)

Θ=9, Ε=5, Ο=70, Σ=200 =284

ΘΕΟΣ (THEOS - GOD)=284

ΑΓΙΟΣ (AGIOS-HOLY/SAINT)

Α=1, Γ=3, Ι=10, Ο=70, Σ=200 = 284

ΑΓΙΟΣ (AGIOS-HOLY/SAINT)=284

ΑΓΑΘΟΣ (AGATHOS - GRACIOUS/VIRTUOUS)

Α=1, Γ=3, Α=1, Θ=9, Ο=70, Σ=200 = 284

ΑΓΑΘΟΣ (AGATHOS - GRACIOUS/VIRTUOUS)=284

So...

ΘΕΟΣ (THEOS - GOD)=ΑΓΙΟΣ (AGIOS-HOLY/SAINT)=ΑΓΑΘΟΣ (AGATHOS - GRACIOUS/VIRTUOUS) =284

another example...

ΑΡΙΘΜΟΣ (arithmos -number)

Α=1, Ρ=100, Ι=10, =Θ=9, Μ=40, Ο=70, Σ=200 =430

ΑΡΙΘΜΟΣ (arithmos -number)=430

ΜΑΘΗΜΑΤΙΚΑ (mathimatika - mathematics )

Μ=40, Α =1, Θ=9, Η=8, Μ=40, Α=1, Τ=300, Ι=10, Κ=20, Α=1 =430

ΜΑΘΗΜΑΤΙΚΑ (mathimatika - mathematics )=430

ΝΟΜΟΣ (nomos - law)

Ν=50, Ο=70, Μ=40, Ο=70, Σ=200 =430
ΝΟΜΟΣ (nomos - law) =430

ΑΡΙΘΜΟΣ (arithmos -number)=ΜΑΘΗΜΑΤΙΚΑ (mathimatika - mathematics)=ΝΟΜΟΣ (nomos - law) =430

another one...

Ο ΘΕΟΣ ΕΙΝΑΙ (Ο THEOS INE - God is)

Ο= 70, Θ=9, Ε=5, Ο=70, Σ=200, Ε=5, Ι=10, Ν=50, Α=1, Ι=10 = 430

Ο ΘΕΟΣ ΕΙΝΑΙ (Ο THEOS INE - God is) =430

Ο ΘΕΟΣ ΕΙΝΑΙ (Ο Theos ine - God is) = ΑΡΙΘΜΟΣ (arithmos -number)=ΜΑΘΗΜΑΤΙΚΑ (mathimatika - mathematics)=ΝΟΜΟΣ (nomos - law) =430


It is clear mathematical acts.

When words or sentences have the same totals, are equals or they have a close relation.

There are three scenarios :
(1) man that invented languages created these synchronicity events on purpose
(2) they are (number and words synchronicity events) the work of a higher form of intelligence, God
(3) there are simply coincidences.
It is very important to understand then which scenario comes closer to reality and what the implications for our understandanding of reality are.

Pythagoras was he who said that everything can be described with numbers.
The Greek Alphabet/Language is not a simple but a mathematical one.
Many Philosophers called the Greek language as a Divine one.
The new generations of the computers will be based in the ancient Greek language.

You already saw that ΘΕΟΣ (Theos-God) =284

Now you all know what is π = 3,1416

Actually Pi, Greek letter (π), is the symbol for the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. Pi = 3.1415926535... Pi Day is celebrated by math enthusiasts around the world on March 14th.

So...

ΘΕΟΣ (Theos-God) x π = 284 x 3,1416 = 892,21

ΑΠΕΙΡΟΝ ΠΝΕΥΜΑ (Infinity Spirit)

Α=1, Π=80 Ε=5, Ι=10, Ρ=100, Ο=70, Ν=50 =316

Π=80, Ν=50, Ε=5, Υ=400, Μ=40, Α=1 =576

316 + 576 = 892

So...

ΘΕΟΣ (Theos-God) x π = ΑΠΕΙΡΟΝ ΠΝΕΥΜΑ (Infinity Spirit) = 892

i like to hear a Mathematician view about those above...thank you very much...again...

[Simetrical]

Dear Mr Simetrical...

i am not a mathematician,neither historian...only a Engineer

What sort of engineer, out of curiosity, and how far are you in your education (or have you completed it?)?

The common Attic stadion was about 185 m, which would imply a circumference of 46,620 km, i.e. 16.3% too large. However, if we assume that Eratosthenes used the "Egyptian stadion" of about 157.5 m, his measurement turns out to be 39,690 km, an error of less than 1%.

So his error might have been very small, or very large. That doesn't tell us much.

Although Eratosthenes' method was well founded, the accuracy of his calculation was inherently limited. The accuracy of Eratosthenes' measurement would have been reduced by the fact that Syene is slightly north of the Tropic of Cancer, is not directly south of Alexandria, and the Sun appears as a disk located at a finite distance from the Earth instead of as a point source of light at an infinite distance. There are other sources of experimental error: the greatest limitation to Eratosthenes' method was that, in antiquity, overland distance measurements were not reliable, especially for travel along the non-linear Nile which was traveled primarily by boat. So the accuracy of Eratosthenes' size of the earth is surprising.

Not if it was 16% off . . .

. . . lots of stuff . . .

I don't understand what relevance most of your post has to, well, anything that's been discussed in this thread. Could you explain what point you're trying to make with all these quotations? Like, what does the fact that pyramids occur in various parts of the world have to do with anything? (It's a fairly simple shape.) And, perhaps, you could set your quotations off in quote boxes or indented or something so that it's clear it's not your words? Giving your exact sources would be appropriate too ("[citation needed]" makes it clear that Wikipedia is at least one of them, but you don't mention it that I see).

Have in mind that the Greek Alphabet is also a mathematical one. Every letter was at the same time also a number.

That doesn't make the alphabet mathematical. It means it had two purposes. Most uses of the alphabet would not have been meant to have anything to do with numbers.

So we have words that are the total of its letters. And if some words have the same total this means that these words has a relation and are some how connected to each other.

No it doesn't. It just means that the words happen to have the same value. It's inevitable that some words will have the same value, by sheer coincidence. The Greek language antedates this system of writing numbers (in fact, antedates all Greek writing) by centuries or millennia, most likely. Words were not invented with particular numerical values in mind, those were made up after the fact.

When words or sentences have the same totals, are equals or they have a close relation.

Ditto.

There are three scenarios :
(1) man that invented languages created these synchronicity events on purpose
(2) they are (number and words synchronicity events) the work of a higher form of intelligence, God
(3) there are simply coincidences.

(1) is impossible, since the Greek alphabet was based on the spoken Greek language, not the other way around. This system of numbering could not have existed at the time most of the words were formulated.

The probability of (2) depends on your beliefs, I guess. Given that this is a science forum, however, I'm not going to consider it as an acceptable hypothesis unless you can give supporting evidence. You can discuss that tack in Ethos, Mores et Monastica if you like.

(3) is the only option left.

Pythagoras was he who said that everything can be described with numbers.

Pythagoras was a mathematician but also a mystic. Statements like that are true in a sense, but not in the sense he meant them.

The Greek Alphabet/Language is not a simple but a mathematical one.

No, it's not. The use of letters for counting was devised much later than the language itself, and probably later than the alphabet, and I can pretty much guarantee you that the average person did not think about the numerical values of words they were using (or inventing).

Many Philosophers called the Greek language as a Divine one.

Because of their own prejudice.

The new generations of the computers will be based in the ancient Greek language.

No, they won't. Computers are and always have been based on machine languages, not human ones. I don't know what you mean by this at all.

i like to hear a Mathematician view about those above...thank you very much...again...

All the numerological stuff is nonsense, like all numerology. Other parts of your posts here are completely uncontroversial and straightforward, like that pyramids exist in various parts of the world or that Eratosthenes and others came up with fairly accurate estimates of the Earth's circumference.

[Starlightman]

What sort of engineer, out of curiosity, and how far are you in your education (or have you completed it?)?

Mechanical Engineer (Study and manufacture of technical work,Development of technical studies mechanical systems,Maintainance of installations and equipment), cause as you said you don't know Greek and English are not my native language...see the official site of my school...i am 34 years old,you are a good mathematician so...i think you can estimate the years...
http://www.teihal.gr/mec/

So his error might have been very small, or very large. That doesn't tell us much.

you know better my friend, like A Mathematician...

I don't understand what relevance most of your post has to, well, anything that's been discussed in this thread. Could you explain what point you're trying to make with all these quotations? Like, what does the fact that pyramids occur in various parts of the world have to do with anything? (It's a fairly simple shape.) And, perhaps, you could set your quotations off in quote boxes or indented or something so that it's clear it's not your words? Giving your exact sources would be appropriate too ("[citation needed]" makes it clear that Wikipedia is at least one of them, but you don't mention it that I see).

from my last post...

Originally Posted by Starlightman
Seems to be a strong relationship between the Parthenon which belongs to the Owl-eyed Athena (ΓΛΑΥΚΩΠΙΣ ΑΘΗΝΗ=92 according to the Pythagorean numerology), with the owl being the symbol of wisdom, and having a direct relationship with 10 (which is a number of deity) times 92 = 920 which is also the number that corresponds to the sum of the numbers of the letters of the words KΛΙΜΑΞ ΘΕΟΥ “Divine Stairway” (or stairway to heaven), which is inscripted with hieroglyphs on the front of Chufu’s Pyramid.

your answer...

Except that this only works because you chose that exact appellation of Athena out of probably dozens or hundreds of variations you come up with; and that exact pyramid, out of all the pyramids in Egypt; and that exact phrase on Chufu's Pyramid (I'll take your word that it's there) out of all the other text there; and that exact Greek translation of the phrase; and even with all this contortion you still had to multiply by ten with the vague justification that it's "a number of deity".
This kind of "logic" can be used to justify any sort of assertion at all. I don't know Greek, but I can use similar arguments to prove that the Bible predicted some totally ahistorical event if you like (since I do know Hebrew, and gematria).

sources about Greek pyramids made for one reason...the hypothetically connection with Egyptians ones...only for this...and i do not trust wikipedia?

That doesn't make the alphabet mathematical. It means it had two purposes. Most uses of the alphabet would not have been meant to have anything to do with numbers.

if that is your opinion...respected but not accepted(according to Pythagoras)

No it doesn't. It just means that the words happen to have the same value. It's inevitable that some words will have the same value, by sheer coincidence. The Greek language antedates this system of writing numbers (in fact, antedates all Greek writing) by centuries or millennia, most likely. Words were not invented with particular numerical values in mind, those were made up after the fact.

happen???please can you help me more about that...?

(1) is impossible, since the Greek alphabet was based on the spoken Greek language, not the other way around. This system of numbering could not have existed at the time most of the words were formulated.

The probability of (2) depends on your beliefs, I guess. Given that this is a science forum, however, I'm not going to consider it as an acceptable hypothesis unless you can give supporting evidence. You can discuss that tack in Ethos, Mores et Monastica if you like.

(3) is the only option left.

personally,between us...i believe the second scenario(it seems to me more logical)...

Pythagoras was a mathematician but also a mystic. Statements like that are true in a sense, but not in the sense he meant them.

i see...:hmmm:

No, it's not. The use of letters for counting was devised much later than the language itself, and probably later than the alphabet, and I can pretty much guarantee you that the average person did not think about the numerical values of words they were using (or inventing).

if you,like a Mathematician say that...

Because of their own prejudice.

no comments on that...

No, they won't. Computers are and always have been based on machine languages, not human ones. I don't know what you mean by this at all.

yes,but since i saw "Terminator" i have a different angle about that...(I'm joking)...

seriously now...i mean something like that...

An Evaluation of How Search Engines Respond to Greek Language Queries
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freea...number=4438839

Educational resources and implementation of a Greek sign language synthesis architecture
"how creation and dynamic synthesis of linguistic resources of Greek Sign Language (GSL) may serve to support development and provide content to an educational multitask platform for the teaching of GSL in early elementary school classes."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...861d52b805c5f0

Emulation of Ancient Greek Music Using Sound Synthesis and Historical Notation
Computer Music Journal
http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/...j.2008.32.4.48

A finite-state approach to the computational morphology of early modern Greek
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1348171.1348213

All the numerological stuff is nonsense, like all numerology. Other parts of your posts here are completely uncontroversial and straightforward, like that pyramids exist in various parts of the world or that Eratosthenes and others came up with fairly accurate estimates of the Earth's circumference.

Thank you very much for you complimentary remarks...it is a honor for a man like me who don't know very well English language...Thanks for your time to share with us...

[Simetrical]

sources about Greek pyramids made for one reason...the hypothetically connection with Egyptians ones...only for this...

I don't understand what you're saying. The Greeks made some pyramids, and so did the Egyptians. That doesn't mean the two are connected. The pyramid is a very simple shape, and it's not surprising that many different people thought it up independently.

if that is your opinion...respected but not accepted(according to Pythagoras)

It's a simple matter of dates. The Greeks got their alphabet in the 9th or 8th century BCE. The Greek language itself was spoken since a millennium or more before that. Words like ΘΕΟΣand ΑΓΙΟΣ therefore predated the alphabet ― their numerical values cannot be anything other than incidental.

Moreover, the use of numerical values for Greek letters considerably postdated the alphabet itself. According to A Manual of Greek Mathematics, for instance (page 16), the earliest attested date of this system is about 450 BCE. This is already well after Homer, for instance.

Pythagoras may have been a great thinker, but he was not a scientist or a historian. His mystical views on numerology were wrong, it's as simple as that. It's not a matter of opinion.

happen???please can you help me more about that...?

I don't understand your question.

personally,between us...i believe the second scenario(it seems to me more logical)...

It's not a scientific scenario.

seriously now...i mean something like that...

An Evaluation of How Search Engines Respond to Greek Language Queries
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freea...number=4438839

Educational resources and implementation of a Greek sign language synthesis architecture
"how creation and dynamic synthesis of linguistic resources of Greek Sign Language (GSL) may serve to support development and provide content to an educational multitask platform for the teaching of GSL in early elementary school classes."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...861d52b805c5f0

Emulation of Ancient Greek Music Using Sound Synthesis and Historical Notation
Computer Music Journal
http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/...j.2008.32.4.48

A finite-state approach to the computational morphology of early modern Greek
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1348171.1348213

These are all related to both computers and the Greek language, nothing more. Respectively, they deal with localization of search engine software; using computers to teach people Greek sign language; synthesizing ancient Greek music using computers; and a way to search Greek documents better. I have no clue how you leapt from these to "The new generations of the computers will be based in the ancient Greek language," which is just nonsense. (And I'm a computer programmer too, by the way.)

[Starlightman]

I don't understand what you're saying. The Greeks made some pyramids, and so did the Egyptians. That doesn't mean the two are connected. The pyramid is a very simple shape, and it's not surprising that many different people thought it up independently.

i agree with you,according to Herodotus they are connected but Herodotus did not see with his eyes that,he only write rumors...

It's a simple matter of dates. The Greeks got their alphabet in the 9th or 8th century BCE. The Greek language itself was spoken since a millennium or more before that. Words like ΘΕΟΣand ΑΓΙΟΣ therefore predated the alphabet ― their numerical values cannot be anything other than incidental.

Moreover, the use of numerical values for Greek letters considerably postdated the alphabet itself. According to A Manual of Greek Mathematics, for instance (page 16), the earliest attested date of this system is about 450 BCE. This is already well after Homer, for instance.

Well,my friend,Greeks they don't took alphabet from Phoenicians...the Greeks wrote and spoke Greek at least 1400 years before the appearance of Phoenicians and their writing to the history...

Ηροδότου ("Ιστορία, Ε 58"):

«58.Οι δε Φοίνικες ούτοι οι συν Κάδμω απικόμενοι τών ήσαν Γεφυραίοι άλλα τε πολλά οικήσαντες ταύτην την χώρην εισήγαγον διδασκάλια ες τους Έλληνας και δη και γράμματα, ουκ εόντα πριν Έλλησι ως εμοί δοκέει, πρώτα μεν τοίσι και άπαντες χρέωνται Φοίνικες· μετά δε χρόνου προβαίνοντος άμα τη φωνή μετέβαλλον και τον ρυθμόν των γραμμάτων».

[58.Οι δε Φοίνικες αυτοί, που μαζί με τον Κάδμο αφίχθησαν, εκ των οποίων και οι Γεφυραίοι, και σε πολλά άλλα μέρη κατοικήσαντες την χώραν αυτήν εισήγαγαν και τέχνες (νέες ή άγνωστες) στους Έλληνες και μάλιστα και (κάποια) γραφή, η οποία δεν ήταν γνωστή πριν στους Έλληνες, καθώς εγώ νομίζω, πρώτα αυτήν την γραφή την οποίαν και όλοι οι Φοίνικες μεταχειρίζονται· μετά όμως με την πάροδο του χρόνου (οι Φοίνικες) μετέβαλλαν μαζί με τη γλώσσα (τους) και το είδος αυτό της γραφής.]

Scripta Minoa, the written documents of Minoan Crete, with special reference to the archives of Knossos,
by Arthur Evans, Sir
http://diglit.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/d...d5650f7196feb3

but this is off topic...

back to our nice discuss....

I have read a long and controversial theory from some people(i must to say in my free time i read everything i can,from a newspaper to a scientific best seller...)
According to this theory, God codified all spoken languages on Earth. Through the codification one may identify the names of God's SpokesPersons.
One of them, according to this theory may be this character with Last Name Pa ... (Π) and first name Le, of Romanian (Ro) and Greek (Gre) origin. Too complex issue...
Actually this Codification by God is done with a lot of humor. Look for example at the quote

Epipleon, e Pi P Leon...

But it is along shot theory, many things have to be proven rigourously from the mathematical (theory of probabilities) point of view.
Look at another example, our dear Simetrical...

P Leon Is

maybe this theory is very different than the Arithhmosophy.

If we accept the fact that everything was codified thousands of years ago we get a far more clear picture. That means that God knew what was going to happen in the year 2008 thousands of years ago.
Then He used all means of codification, including Arithhmosophy, to make His point.
But again, sorry for bringing such a complex issue here.Everything above is just a theory from some people,not mine...when i read it i think that is a joke...i say that with terms like "if" maybe this word was different...maybe not...

simetrical:"i met a crazy Greek guy"(I'm joking)

Pythagoras may have been a great thinker, but he was not a scientist or a historian. His mystical views on numerology were wrong, it's as simple as that. It's not a matter of opinion.

you believe Pythagoras invent the mystical numerology alone...?
i think many things of ancient Greece have a purpose...and we never find it...

It's not a scientific scenario.

it is a scenario about the Greek language

(2) scenario 2 : Divine intervention : 50%
In my opinion Illuminati are doomed anyway so they act like the gung that has nothing to loose anyway.
As about Arithmosophy it can't be coincidences.
I can find too much more lexarithmic acts.
If we admit scenario (2) we may ask then the question : "what is God's profile and Control Strategy for Earth ?". Only Greek Mythology addressed this question.
Most religions of today leave the subject in total darkness, they do not dare to look at God in His wonderfull eyes, like there are scared of something.
In Ancient Greece Religion was not preachers that were exploiting the crowds but Theology was a science too... Mathematics, Philosophy, Physic, Theology were one or too much close related each other.

These are all related to both computers and the Greek language, nothing more. Respectively, they deal with localization of search engine software; using computers to teach people Greek sign language; synthesizing ancient Greek music using computers; and a way to search Greek documents better. I have no clue how you leapt from these to "The new generations of the computers will be based in the ancient Greek language," which is just nonsense. (And I'm a computer programmer too, by the way.)

I'm a little biased about that,i read a hoax article...my apologies

this hoax...
http://www.imerisia.gr/article.asp?c...llenic%20quest

from wiki...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenic_Quest

I know you are a computer programmer too,i have many friends here in Greece who make this job and i must to say that you have make a great work on this site...again,please forgive my bad English,many times i cant express my thoughts writing English like the way i do...please,if you find time,translate this pages of Greek language...it is very informative about computers and Greek language...

another sources about computers and Greek lanquage...(not hoax...)
http://www.geocities.com/dim2pap/h_e...pologistes.htm
http://abnet.agrino.org/htmls/T/T011.htm
http://abnet.agrino.org/htmls/T/T006.htm

"S. Gudder1 Contact Information and R. Ball1
(1) Department of Mathematics and Computer Science, University of Denver, Denver, Colorado

Abstract The class of quantum languages Q(Sgr) over an alphabet Sgr is the class of languages accepted by quantum automata. We study properties of Q(Sgr) and compare Q(Sgr) with the class of regular languages R(Sgr). It is shown that Q(Sgr) is closed under union, intersection, and reversal but is not closed under complementation, concatenation, or Kleene star. It is also shown that Q(Sgr) and R(Sgr) are incomparable. Finally, we prove that L isin Q(Sgr) if and only if L admits a transition amplitude function satisfying a certain property and a similar characterization is given for R(Sgr)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_programming

Properties of Quantum Languages

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...fgtl.alexandra

Regular Languages Accepted by Quantum Automata

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...95d372db74d9a6


it is a difference between alphabet and language...If indeed it is used and is used this Greek system of numeration they is something that I do not dispute, the make that it can be more suitable,they could Greek be written in cyrillic, in Latin the any other alphabet without changes nothing that concerns the language...your opinion about that...?
(i am again of topic...:hmmm
And a suggestion...a token of respect to you...Dear Mr Simetrical...

A computer project which makes available as software and on computers all of Greek literature up to 600 A.D; the second is a similar project begun for the history of the Irish language and its literature (Thesaurus Linguarum Hiberniae). The Royal Irish Academy directs this project with the cooperation of the University of Cork, the University of Dublin, and universities throughout the world

Thesaurus Linguae Graecae
University of California, Irvine
3450 Berkeley Place,
Irvine, CA 92697-5550
USA
e-mail: tlg@uci.edu
web: http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~tlg

[Simetrical]

Well,my friend,Greeks they don't took alphabet from Phoenicians...the Greeks wrote and spoke Greek at least 1400 years before the appearance of Phoenicians and their writing to the history...

The Greeks took their alphabet from the Phoenicians. Prior to that they had writing, but not an alphabet: they wrote in syllabaries such as Linear B, unrelated to the Greek alphabet. Linear B has 80+ symbols in it, completely different from the Greek alphabet, so you can't apply the same numerology to it.

but this is off topic...

No, it's very much on-topic if you're going to say that relationships between words are revealed by their spelling in an alphabet that long postdated the words themselves.

According to this theory, God codified all spoken languages on Earth. Through the codification one may identify the names of God's SpokesPersons.

I don't know why you started this thread in the science forum, and then keep on bringing up God. Theories involving God are not scientific and don't belong here.

If we accept the fact that everything was codified thousands of years ago we get a far more clear picture. That means that God knew what was going to happen in the year 2008 thousands of years ago.
Then He used all means of codification, including Arithhmosophy, to make His point.

Again, not scientific. As far as scientific fact goes, there's no possible way that arithmosophy can have any truth to it. If you want to believe it has some mystical significance, that's fine, but it's not science. (On religious grounds I wouldn't believe it either, but that's a separate issue.)

you believe Pythagoras invent the mystical numerology alone...?

I don't know, and nor do I particularly care. I'm addressing what you say, not who said it. I'm not impressed by big names getting attached to wrong concepts. Newton was an alchemist, too. That doesn't mean alchemy was right.

As about Arithmosophy it can't be coincidences.

Why not?

I can find too much more lexarithmic acts.

I don't understand what you mean here.

If we admit scenario (2)

I don't, at least not in this forum. I come here to discuss science, not theology.

"S. Gudder1 Contact Information and R. Ball1
(1) Department of Mathematics and Computer Science, University of Denver, Denver, Colorado

Abstract The class of quantum languages Q(Sgr) over an alphabet Sgr is the class of languages accepted by quantum automata. We study properties of Q(Sgr) and compare Q(Sgr) with the class of regular languages R(Sgr). It is shown that Q(Sgr) is closed under union, intersection, and reversal but is not closed under complementation, concatenation, or Kleene star. It is also shown that Q(Sgr) and R(Sgr) are incomparable. Finally, we prove that L isin Q(Sgr) if and only if L admits a transition amplitude function satisfying a certain property and a similar characterization is given for R(Sgr)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_programming

Properties of Quantum Languages

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...fgtl.alexandra

Regular Languages Accepted by Quantum Automata

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...95d372db74d9a6

What do any of these have to do with Greek?

it is a difference between alphabet and language...If indeed it is used and is used this Greek system of numeration they is something that I do not dispute, the make that it can be more suitable,they could Greek be written in cyrillic, in Latin the any other alphabet without changes nothing that concerns the language...your opinion about that...?

I don't understand what you're saying.

[Starlightman]

The Greeks took their alphabet from the Phoenicians. Prior to that they had writing, but not an alphabet: they wrote in syllabaries such as Linear B, unrelated to the Greek alphabet. Linear B has 80+ symbols in it, completely different from the Greek alphabet, so you can't apply the same numerology to it.

we are off topic here...

if you like to read something about alphabet and language i suggesting you this...

The Man Who Deciphered Linear B: The Story of Michael Ventris
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...979584-5441221

and this one...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Decipherment...146466-5242124

Κικέρων : «PISISTRATUS PRIMUS HOMERI LIBROS CONFUSOS ANTEA SIE DISPONISSE … UT NUNC HABEMUS (DE ORATORE III 137)

Τάκιτος : «Arcade ab Evandro dedicerum litteras, et forma litteris Latinis» Annales 11,14

more...

Burrews «The discoveries in Crete»
HUMEZ «Alpa to Omega»
Dussaud « Les Civilisations prehelleniques dans le basin de la mere gee»
De Saussure «Course in general linguistuics» page 39
New Webster Dictionary of English Language edition Grolier, New York see "alphabet"
S.G. Rembroke (The legacy of Greece, oxford university press 1994)

and about alphabet...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...sDiskLarge.jpg

Language, therefore, it is the enarthros and ellogos reason.
He is main human characteristic, that decisive separates the person from the kraygazon animal, while only the person allocates centres of reason in his brain.
Writing is the via written points representation or “depiction of” human speech.
Alphabet is the total of written points that combined produces words.

The systems of writing and their historical sequence it is:
1. Ideographic
2. Eikonografikon (Ieroglyfikon)
3. Grammografikon
4. Syllabografikon
5. Fthoggografikon

The course of Phoenoician language and alphabet in chorochronos, has as follows: It is presented, with her ambiguous form, the one that creates and the problem that we deal with also, in 1100 - 800 B.C., when "growing" the Phoenicians....
With regard to the origin of Phoenicians as population: Phoenicians, in the region where they were presented, they are marked twice in the History:
When various racial Greek teams but mainly Cretes colonized the region (3200 eg) and transport together their and samples of Cretan Linear [B]΄ of writing, and when in 1360 B.C. are ruined these and their place take Simitofoinikes, that exploiting the extermination of precedents of Greek origin from their Chettites, come from the regions of Persian Trick and appropriate name, origin, cultural background and elements of writing and language. This is also certified by their Irodotos (Z 89) and Stravo (IΣT 3 and 4).
They write in syllabografiko system of writing, fault vowels, with the way from right to left, something that also the current residents of region do up to today. Forms of these alphabets exist in a lot of studies and publications and easily it can no one find him and him study.






"The disk of Faistoy (that was found in 1908 from the L. PERNIER in the North East of sector of palace of Faistoy) with his charting writing, with the sign in coper from [Idalion] they constitute most important discoveries for the humanity and the Greek nation. These in combination with the decipherment of Linear B from the "amateur" M. Bentris (architect in the profession) the 1/6/52 that gave a sonorous slap in the all "scientists" that were absolutely sure that the Linear B is not Greek language (after according to the theory about Indoeuropeans the Greeks did not exist (!) then) they proved the antiquity of Greek language. Does the disk of [Faistoy] that is dated in the beginning of Neoanaktorikon of years (17th B.C. century), bring points of ieroglifikis writting and in the two aspects, that were impressed with seals, when the clay was fresh. It is therefore the oldest clue of typography in the world, reproduction of written texts with moulds of points. And the two signs have been impressed in spiral provision, from the region to the centre. Total the points in the two aspects of disk are 242. These layouted in 61 teams (words), where the every is separated from the other with apeak engraved lines. The number of points in each word varies from two until seven. The words in a side of disk are 30 while in his B side it is 31. The different symbols are 45 (and according to writer A. Basilakis is not always portrayed the same letter of him conventional Greek Cretan of alphabet, in each one of them). Also, we report that exist also fifteen symbols in his two sides, where they have one undersigned, previously sides and previously vertical to the symbol. This symbols answer only in the beginning of words and undersigned were added with a quill."

------------------------------------------------------
"The "Foinikiki Theoria" it was established in Europe in a season where, as does write the distinguished modern English classic philologist S.G.Rembroke (" The Legacy of Greece, publ. Oxford University Press, 1984), “in the Phoenicians in general gaven a role intermediary”, that it escaped from any information of history, a role of that is to say carriers of wisdom and culture of perioysioy population of Israel in the "uncultural" populations and to the Greeks. These certain it is forgiven, after saying the dues of Middle Age, therefore the religious fanaticism and the obscurantism had reached in such point, so that they want the girl of [Agamemnonos] Ifigenia as girl of [Ieftha], [Deykaliona] as Noah, [Api] as adviser of [Iosif], Apollo, [Priamo], [Teiresia] and Orpheus as perversions of Moses, the history of [Argonayton] as crossing of Israelites from Egypt in the Palestine and other many similarly. These pointings out makes him Rembroke."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"FALSE COMPARE TABLE

Here we see a false compare table, because:
1) The Greek script has many kinds of letters (small, capital, homophones etc) and here we see only one kind.
2) In ancient Greece each town had different alphabet and here we see only one alphabet (the common alphabet, that is made after 4o century b.Cr.).
In ancient attic alphabetwe have the letters M, L, Λ.. that in Cretan alphabet are different, are Σ, Λ, Γ…
3) The Phoenician letters are from ideograms (have schema of animals, things etc), but have phonetic pronunciation. The Greek letters are not from ideograms. In Greek script the letters have two or more schemas (icon), capital: A, E, Λ, Δ, Μ…, small:α, ε, λ, δ, β… Homophone: O(o) & Ω(ω), Υ(υ) & Ι(ι) & Η(η) & ΟΙ(οι)… fortechnicalreasons (distinguishhomophonewords, e.g.:Νίκη & νίκη, λύρα & λίρα, καλή & καλοί…Something that there is not in Phoenician script.
The scheme of Greek letters is from the mouth organs (lips, teeth etc) to suggest his pronunciation, e.g.: Λ(λ) = tongue up and internal, Β(β) = close lips and full with air…
The Phoenician and Egyptian alphabets had letters only for consonants sounds. Consonant letters there are and in the Greek alphabet, but it did not mean anything, because in one hand consonant letters are founded and in senior scripts (ancient Cretan script, Cuneiform script etc) and in other hand the letters of Phoenician and Egyptian alphabets had shame (are pictures) of animals, men etc (Aleph= the picture; beth = house etc) and the letters of Greek alphabet are pictures of pronunciations organs (lips, mouth, tongue etc) each sound: α, β, γ..
If we look at Phoenician inscriptions, we will see that the Phoenicians letters have more one schemes, some of these are from Greek. That’s all."


you can read all article here...

http://www.krassanakis.gr/phoenician_script.htm

-------------------------------------------------------

I don't know why you started this thread in the science forum, and then keep on bringing up God. Theories involving God are not scientific and don't belong here.

i agree with you...this thread started cause i like to know from our community some opinions...from scientistic view of Acropolis cause i am not a scientist or Mathematician....

Again, not scientific. As far as scientific fact goes, there's no possible way that arithmosophy can have any truth to it. If you want to believe it has some mystical significance, that's fine, but it's not science. (On religious grounds I wouldn't believe it either, but that's a separate issue.)

again...i dont believe that theory,i dont believe the word "if" represented to real life..."if i had money,now i was rich"...but i havent so i am not a rich man...

I don't know, and nor do I particularly care. I'm addressing what you say, not who said it. I'm not impressed by big names getting attached to wrong concepts. Newton was an alchemist, too. That doesn't mean alchemy was right.

sure...i agree with you but who put terms like "right" or "wrong"...scientist..?people?...

"Tesla died in age of 87 years, poor and ignored, in a humble room that was found in the 33rd floor of hotel New Yorker. It was 7 January 1943, day of Serbian Christmas. Him it discovered dead the housemaid of hotel that, ignoring the plate “You do not bother”, it entered in the room number 3273, in which lived the inventor the last ten years. His body had a serene expression, as if he appearred satisfied from the completion of his mission in the planet earth…"

Why not?

cause is only a theory....

I don't, at least not in this forum. I come here to discuss science, not theology.

for me,as a Greek ,this two are familiar.....

I don't understand what you're saying.

i cant express it better...i try to find a good translator...

[Rhaegar1]

If you write a book you can call it "The acropolis apocalipse" That's about just as an original name as all those da vinci code clones (including dan browns own books) popping up all around us

[Starlightman]

If you write a book you can call it "The acropolis apocalipse" That's about just as an original name as all those da vinci code clones (including dan browns own books) popping up all around us

if you like it so much please p.m your address to send you the first copy of my book "Thoughts from a Star" with a autograph..."to Rhaegar,my first admirer,my best regards..."
free charge for you my friend...(at least i have one admirer...)

it is so bad when we reading something to share it with other people to learn and different views...?Net are huge,you find craps and wonderful things...some things i like to know how people from other countries saw them...