Campaign AI worse than in RTW Vanilla!

[Bearhugger]

Did you realize that in RTW (Rome Total War) the AI would kill entire factions and conquer huge parts of the map?

In STW (Shogun Total War) even more so.

In MTW2 Vanilla or modded the AI can never manage to even kill one opposing faction...

The units just don't find their way to all enemy cities or the AI isn't aggressive enough or whatever.

What do you think about that? Is CA making worse AIs for every new installment of Total War? What do we have to expect from "Empire Total War"?

[Darkshanks]

I think its a more balanced AI because in reality stuff like england wiping out the turks and occupying all of the anatola, meanwhile holding a front against Russians who hold everything south of jurasalem just isnt practical.

[Tacitursa]

I think its a more balanced AI because in reality stuff like england wiping out the turks and occupying all of the anatola, meanwhile holding a front against Russians who hold everything south of jurasalem just isnt practical.

Well Portugal,spain and partly england did much much more than that and took over south and north america. I understand balance is always a problem with games and AI though. But would just be great to get to 100 turns and 20 regions + and also see a powerhouse AI faction with 30+ would be a great challenge defeating them. As it is now AI never seem to have much more than what they started with even 200 turns in.

[Bearhugger]

Well Portugal,spain and partly england did much much more than that and took over south and north america. I understand balance is always a problem with games and AI though. But would just be great to get to 100 turns and 20 regions + and also see a powerhouse AI faction with 30+ would be a great challenge defeating them. As it is now AI never seem to have much more than what they started with even 200 turns in.

Exactly. In STW and RTW we still see these powerhouses...

[Ketchup]

Exactly. In STW and RTW we still see these powerhouses...

Personally, I hated the fact that you got "the Grey Death" (seleucid domination) or the "Yellow Death" (ptolemaic domination). It was so boring when you ended up having to fight 5 stacks a turn because the Ptolemaics owned all of asia and africa. Also, it's totally unrealistic.

[Tacitursa]

I guess the question is Should the AI be able to do what the Player can do. I think to make games a challenge that answer has to be yes.

If a player can take over the map then the AI should be capable of doing so too.

I dont really understand the Realistic arguement. The player taking over is just as unrealistic as the AI doing it in historical terms. Should the player not be able to do it either. If not then the game is boring. Just like the player being able to do stuff the AI cannot makes the games easy and eventually boring.

Imo Single player games , The AI has to be tottaly unpredictable and every game run through should never be the same as the previous. The only thing that determines that in this game is the player doing things differently AI pretty much follow the exact same pattern. Scotland takes bruges then dont do anything , ireland never actually leave ireland etc etc

I understand AI isnt that advanced or intelligent . But there are games where each enemy has Many different scripts that are random so where you have several enemies choosing from loads of scripts you never see the same enemies using the same scripts. I think Empire Total war will implement something like this

[BruceAlmighty]

Lets hope in empires CA brings these agressive AI back because i think we can all agree that circa 1800's europe their were definatly huge power houses lol

[Kaizer Merlox]

guys should try this on hotseat, Humans are so fun to play against!

[King Sama]

Wow, I think that's a bit harsh. Maybe CA doesn't want the factions to be so dominant over eachother.

Well Portugal,spain and partly england did much much more than that and took over south and north america. I understand balance is always a problem with games and AI though. But would just be great to get to 100 turns and 20 regions + and also see a powerhouse AI faction with 30+ would be a great challenge defeating them. As it is now AI never seem to have much more than what they started with even 200 turns in.

Yeah, but they were fighting people with weapons that were centuries behind the ones of europe. Plus they didn't have cavalry, and diseases killed many of them. In actuality, the only real "empires" during that time frame and in the campign map were the turks, the HRE (though it was very disunited), the kwarezmians, and the mongols.

[Taiji]

I agree with the OP.

AI that grows big by eating smaller factions is good for gameplay. Whether it's historically accurate or not should take second place on this issue. Historical accuracy goes out of the window all over the place to ensure good gameplay and I think this is one of the places it should be ignored. The reason is that it gives the player a huge advantage. For me it's yet another area where TW has not just failed to evolve but lost some of it's goodness.

It would be nice to be able to make selections before a campaign starts that allow you to choose who you are likely to be fighting endgame.

Or at least for some factions to be given an advantage randomly at campaign start, to ensure a good imbalance.

Without some super factions out there to compete with the game just dies for me but I totally agree that if it's the same factions every game that sucks too.

[Alxaro]

In one of my campaigns in vanilla I've seen a faction become a powerhouse, I was playing as the Byzantine Empire and had just figured out how to open the console on my keyboard. I typed in toggle_fow and saw Portugal owning North West Africa, West Europe and Ireland. They had wiped out Spain, Moors and France.
Game setting was easy or medium.

[Gogolometro]

Hungary is always a power house.Sometime Poland start a campaign of domination in east europe but I was surprised to see Teutons empire owning all polish lands and half of HRE.Interesting is to see Danemark just blitz HRE and Norway with 40 provinces lol.In my actual campaign like Aragon Moors eliminated Portugal, Spain ask me desperate an alliance, in british islands Scotts eliminated England ( I have a long war with them, is turn 105 and war was 80 turns long ), Irish have 2 castles in England, Ireland and 3 provinces in France, KOJ near kill fatimids, Byzzies get a big empire, Venice have 2 fortresses.I seen only 1 constant in late campaign in VH/VH - Hungary.They got all south eastern Europe and Poland have a great chance to take northeast.Scotts are very strong if I not play a northen catholic.In combo with Danes and Irish the Scotts can conquer all north west europe.England is very weak, the absence of pikes I think.HRE rarely can conservetheir teritories.Sicily ussualy want land in Africa more than dominate Italy.
And dont forgot pope, If they get Florence and excom HRE to get Bologna is very posible to see pope the arm of god in europe.

[TheLastPrivate]

Let's leave RTW out, because that only happened due to certain faction economy/units being sheer OP, not much of an AI.

[Darkshanks]

Let's leave RTW out, because that only happened due to certain faction economy/units being sheer OP, not much of an AI.

With that being said even complaining about the Ai is futile. No matter how they program it, you are still playing against a computer who will never learn of your way of engagement nor ever be able to adapt around or against it. Their archers will always be easy pickings for your calvary, and their infantry will always sit there as you demonstrate the effectiveness of your artillary.

I would say Darthmod had the best improvements to CA's AI.

[TheLastPrivate]

XBAI is just as good. Enemy cavalry using wedge formation to maneuver through my sharpened stakes was quite a surprise.

[Tacitursa]

What annoys me more than anything is how poorly england is played by the AI. Any compaign that i dont play as england the scots always take york and ussualy take over Britania im sorry but thats just absurd.

And ireland just never do anything atall. It seems scotland has a script for taking bruges cause the AI seem to take it 95% of the time. Ireland needs some kind of script like this to make them attack Renes or Iberia

[reeke]

Scotland seem to take bruges all the time in mine too.

I play the late campaigh, and ireland ALWAYS take over 3/4 regions from france.

[Taiji]

Personally I am very dissapointed when I notice a faction is scripted to attack a province. They often mess themselves up trying to do so. If I own the province they're after it severely affects their progress for obvious reasons. It also causes them to mess up diplomacy, they call a cease fire but then can't help but attack the province again.

[Lothe]

Ah yes, joy, the benefits of a nice long campaign. I dont have the problem of "lack of powerhouse AI". In my TO Campaign (nearing Turn 500 now ) the world is really obviously broken down. The British Isles are the only really unchanged part. Western Europe is French dominated. Iberia is 1/2 Spanish, 1/2 Portugese. Africa (Tripoli to Marrakesh) is all Portu. Egypt owns what it naturally should, ie Holy Land, Red Sea, Random places outside of the Levant. The Shah owns what he owns. And I own everything else.
Looks to be a very fun game coming up!

[Navajo Joe]

Ah yes, joy, the benefits of a nice long campaign. I dont have the problem of "lack of powerhouse AI". In my TO Campaign (nearing Turn 500 now ) the world is really obviously broken down. The British Isles are the only really unchanged part. Western Europe is French dominated. Iberia is 1/2 Spanish, 1/2 Portugese. Africa (Tripoli to Marrakesh) is all Portu. Egypt owns what it naturally should, ie Holy Land, Red Sea, Random places outside of the Levant. The Shah owns what he owns. And I own everything else.
Looks to be a very fun game coming up!

Same here, in my Norwegian Campaign the Danes, Poles, Hungarians and Leon-Castille are other dominant Catholic factions, although they are all my allies and are situated where you would expect them. The Moors control North Africa, Fatimids the Holyland, Seljuks Turkey and Kwarz Persia.
Infact when ever Venicians siege Belgrade that I have owned since turn 20, the Hungarians send a relieving force and we fight off the Venicians together. That is what you would expect from an ally.