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  1. #1

    Default Italia Dominatus



    Italia Dominatus
    Medieval II: Kingdoms Mod
    1061-1500
    Updated: March 04 2009
    Mod Status- Around 60% Done

    THIS MOD IS NOT DEAD! I JUST DO NOT HAVE INTERNET! IF I ABANDON IT (NOT LIKELY) I WILL INFORM AN ADMIN.


    Italia Dominatus is a mod I have begun work on which has several aims:

    1. To accurately reflect the political strife and history of the Italian Peninsula during the early middle ages up to the renaissance.
    2. To create a campaign experience very unlike that offered by vanilla Medieval II and most mods.
    3. To try to address the problems I see with the basic Total War formula, and to create a consistent challenge, while still making a enjoyable campaign.
    4. To suck away all my free time and drive me crazy with un-logged CTD's.

    The Background
    There are few times in history as well suited to a war game then medieval Italy. Feuding city states absorb, aid, destroy, and betray each other at the drop of a hat. Great Powers from abroad invade en masse periodically, setting up client kingdoms that fold the moment they turn their head. Mercenaries and Nomadic Peoples flood in, carving out kingdoms for themselves wherever they can.

    How It translates

    I've modeled the game in concept after Europa Unviersalis- The factions do no start out balanced, but instead are divided into various groups as would have been hopefully accurate at the time.
    I choose 1061 as the start date because it offers the greatest diversity of factions- the Byzantines have just retaken settlements stolen by the Guiscards, the Muslims still maintain a tenuous foothold in the south, and the northern states are seemingly more divided then they would ever be.

    In terms of great powers, we have

    • Hungary, who would meddle mostly unsuccessfuly in Italian affairs for years.
    • The Byzantine Empire, who maintain a slowly decreasing hold on the eastern part of the Italian Penisula
    • The Holy Roman Empire, who though in name includes most of Northern Italy, has little power there and frequently invades to attempt to assert its dominance. They will periodically invade as a horde.
    • The Papal States.
    • France (emergent)
    • Spain (emergent)
    • Ottoman Empire (emergent)

    In terms of Non-Italian Lesser Powers, we have

    • The Zirid Dynasty (Emirate of Tunisia)
    • The Emirate of Sicily
    • Kingdom of Croatia
    • Giudicato of Logudoro (Sassari)- Sardinian independent state.
    • Kingdom of Croatia
    • Kingdom of Serbia

    In Terms of Italian lesser powers and city states, we have

    • The Republic of Venice
    • The Duchy of Savoy
    • Marquisate of Verona
    • Marquisate of Tuscany
    • The Duchy of Spoleto
    • The March of Calabria and Apulia
    • Principality of Salerno
    • Genoa
    • Milan
    • Sicily
    • Naples
    • Pisa

    Note that there is still room for 5 factions. I will be working on adding a few emergent factions and perhaps, if I get motivated enough, make a separate renaissance provincial campaign. I am very much still learning about this period in history- if anyone has any faction suggestions I'd love to hear them.

    Gameplay Focuses

    There are a few factors about this mod that will, hopefully, make it into a very different playing experience. While first and foremost will be extreme disparity in power between a kingdom and a city state, I will also be focusing on certain mechanics:

    Economic Warfare

    Trade has been integral part of the success, and failure, of most Italian factions throughout history - as such, trade income, especially sea trade, will be the lifeblood of your faction. At the same time, blockades, interruption of trade routes, devastation, war- these will be majorly devastating economic factors. I want to make economic warfare a very real, and viable, possibility- by upping dependence on trade, and subsequently making devastation and blockades something that need to be dealt with immediately. If you, you know, wanna live.

    In the same vein, merchants will be much different in this game. Going with the logic that they represent great traders and not just some guy selling wood in the forest outside town, and that Italy at the time was essentially the merchant capital of much of the western world, merchants will be far more expensive and powerful- and fighting over a comparatively limited number of resources. This represents the struggles between guilds and family's and factions as they tried to they murdered, muscled, and bought each other out. Each resource will give a lot of money- but everyone will be fighting for them.

    Condottiere

    Mercenaries were a big part of warfare in medieval Italy, a fact Machiavelli much lamented. As such, I am going to attempt to expand and heavily populate the mercenary system, taking cues from historical region and time line factors. Every faction will have access to a revised and expanded mercenary system- but for the Italians it will be where the majority of their really powerful or unique units come from. If the AI can handle it, I would like to have a massive global Italian mercenary pool, with units that re-enter the pool once disbanded- creating a separate struggle between factions to buy up the best mercenaries and deprive the enemies of theirs.

    Mercenaries themselves will have reduced morale, be cheaper to hire, but more expensive to maintain.

    Citizen Militias

    Italian city states, perhaps because the legacy of the roman empire, often employed citizen militias to defend their cities, and with limited success, attack their rivals. While these militia's grew more organized and effective throughout the years, even in the early middle ages you occasional hear about them.
    All cities and castles, to a lesser extent, will have larger free-upkeep allowances. Italians will have access to a special class of militia units- cheap, limitedly competent, easily raised, these units represent the mass of defenders that can be drafted in defense of a city with an armed populace. They will, however, have increased support cost- they are intended for city defense, where their upkeep is free. (Note: This feature is pretty dependent on the AI's ability to handle it.)

    Recruitment

    I will be looking to limit and change the recruitment system to more reflect the reality that, if you 20,000 army is massacred, you cant just wait two years and have another one. While I find limited recruitment systems to be generally more annoying then fun in games, I will be looking for a way to ensure that big, powerful, rare units stay that way, and that every battle is an important one- but not at the expense of enjoyment.

    Nobles/Guilds

    Italy has a rich history of inter family warfare, rebellion, betrayal, and failed and successful seizures of power. When noble families or powerful guilds were spurned or disrespected, they did not take it laying down. As such, I will be attempting implement a method by which serious rebellions and problems can be created by spurning the wishes of the guilds and family. I'm not sure if this is possible, but it would be cool (as I see it in my head.)

    Unique Units


    Since the various Italian factions are, for the most part, made up of exactly the same people and only separated by a line on a map or the title of the man/woman in charge of where they live at the moment, their unit lists will be roughly the same. Their will, of couse, be differences between Norman Italian, and northern Italians, and lombardic/french italians, but for the most part your units will be the same.
    So, what will make it not horribly boring and redudant?
    Firstly, the massive mercenary system means that, if you have the cash, you will never be limited to merely your own unit pool.
    Secondly, the unit roster for the Italian factions, as provided to me by Jaguar6, is massive, and will result a more devolped and diverse unit count then found in any single faction in vanilla, or any mod i've played yet.
    As if that wasnt enough, each important or historic city will provide its current owner with the ability to recruit a certian type of unit. So, owning Genoa as an italian faction, will let you train the superior Genovese crossbowmen. There will be approx 12 of these units, and furthermore, I will be scattering a few 'easter egg's around- whose to say that every now and then the Zirid Caliph won't import some elephants from southern africa, or a byzantine firethrower won't be tempted away by the promise of gold? Such things will not be commonplace (expect to pay through the nose), but they are hardly ahistorical

    Previews

    Help
    Though I pretty much want to make this mod myself (not to be a dick, but I want to make the mod I want to make, and my work style would probably drive people crazy anyway) thier are lots of things I could use help with, if anyone wants to give.
    These are things the I need:

    1. Unit list for the Italian factions (provided by Jaguar6)
    2. Unit lists, and historical information on the Zirids (building names, ideas for traits and ancillaries)
    3. Unit lists, and historical information, on the Byzantine Empire (building names, ideas for traits and ancillaries)
    4. Unit lists, and historical information on the Kingdom of Hungary (building names, ideas for traits and ancillaries)
    5. Unit lists, and historical information on the Kingdom of Croatia(building names, ideas for traits and ancillaries)
    6. Unit lists, and historical information on the Kingdom of Serbia (building names, ideas for traits and ancillaries)
    7. Information on mercenary companies that would serve as inspiration of historically accurate mercenaries.
    8. Traits, ancillaries, and special buildings for the Italian factions.
    9. Language translation- similar to Europa Barbarum, I would like to have the names of the kingdoms, units, buildings, and all that in the native langauge as much as possible.
    10. More as a realize the need for it.

    Contributors
    These people have been invaluable in the help they have given me-

    • Wildog, for allowing me the use of his map, and then letting me screw with it.
    • Jaguar6, for countless units lists and historical information.



    Last edited by RantingHeretic; March 05, 2009 at 01:07 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    Nice idea for a mod, and I wish you the best of luck with it. Looking forward to hearing more about how you want the campaign experience to be.

  3. #3
    Jaguar6's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    Looks like a good mod, but what about the Papal States, the Duchy of Savoy, the Republic of Ragusa, and a few other smaller city states?

    Also, here are some maps you may find useful...

    Last edited by Jaguar6; December 13, 2008 at 12:17 AM.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    "what about the Papal States, the Duchy of Savoy, the Republic of Ragusa, and a few other smaller city states?"

    I really shouldn't have put my list (or this page, really) up yet- it was far from an exhaustive or final faction list. I honestly really didn't think anyone was going to even look, or comment on this.
    The Papal States will play a large part, of course, but they are non-playable so I didn't think to add them.
    In regards to the Duchy of Savoy, I am going to attempt to begin the map with as close to historically accurate starting positions as I can muster- I would definitely include them in a later era map I would I love to make after I get the base of the game set up, but from what little I know in around 1060 Savoy was still part of the Kingdom of Burgundy (the one that was very close. The same applies to Ragusa- in 1060 it was either a byzantine protectorate or a veneician colony (I am getting lots of conflicting info.)
    Thanks for the maps! I need all the maps I can get. I actually have ones that look identical to these that I forgot to bookmark and just downloaded- do you know what book or website they came from? Its the same style, format, colours, just different years.


    A large reason I am doing this mod is to learn more about this era in history- any information or advice on good books/media about this period and I would be forever in your debt.
    Last edited by RantingHeretic; December 13, 2008 at 03:25 AM. Reason: repeated myself, a lot.

  5. #5
    Stephan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    i love the idea and i wish you good luck with it
    and i think it would be good to integrate the republik of ragusa and savoy, you could make them emerge later that would be historical and it spices the game up a little

    Yes, I know that Ishtar is spelled wrong

  6. #6
    Jaguar6's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    I agree with Stephan on Savoy and Ragusa

    And about the maps, I just got them from Wikipedia by I don't know where Wikipedia got them

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    It would be very cool to have emergent factions- I would to have the different important political entities of thier time emerge. That's easy to do in Europa Universallis- here, with the faction limit and some of the limitations of scripting, it would be harder. The only really issue would be this- given the start date of 1061, at a one-year-per-turn it would take some 380 turns to reach the point where, according to wiki, it became truly established. That said, in the spirit of the game, where the majority of these factions were under a very loose dominance by different groups, I could easily introduce it much earlier- if I could start it as a byzantine vassal it could open the game as an independent city. (As far as I know, the code doesn't allow that.)
    So my question is this- how many turns do you guys usually play a game? I personally stop at the point where i've either become the dominant power or achieved something I wanted to achieve- setting up a crusader kingdom, or a muslim state in europe, giving one faction as much money and units as I can and making them a super power.
    Obviously the number of turns played depends on how fun the game is- but I don't think i've ever played a game for more then 200 turns tops. The answer would be increasing the number of turns per year so that, over the course of a normal game, you experience the renisannce, the plague, the ottoman invasion, all sorts of fun stuff.
    I'd like to thank everyone for thier comments! I will be updating the information massively this weekend to give you a better idea of my aims and goals.
    Last edited by RantingHeretic; December 13, 2008 at 07:25 PM.

  8. #8
    Gwyn ap Nud's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    Your conflicting information is actually not as conflicting as you might think.

    Ragusa was a Venetian colony, and Venice was a Byzantine protectorate.

    Cogito Ergo Vicco

  9. #9

    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    at Gwyn Ap Nud- now it all makes sense.

  10. #10
    Jaguar6's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    Nice update on the main post, I'm really looking forward to this mod
    Would you like my help with history, I am great at coming up with unit lists.

    I have a few faction suggestions too...
    -The Republic of Ragusa: A protectorate and basically a copy of Venice, with a few differences.
    -Kingdom of France: They may be better as an emergent faction, but they had a large affect on Italy, especially during the Italian Wars.
    -Kingdom of Spain: Also a major player in the Italian wars, and eventual owner of Sicily, Naples, and Sardinia.
    -The Ottoman Empire: Emergent of coarse.
    -The Republic of Sienna: Like Florence, but more cultural then military and economics.
    -Duchy of Ferrara, Modena and Reggio: A combined faction of the three duchies, since they were both ruled by the House of Este.
    -The Hafsid Dynasty: They would eventually take over the Zirrids, they should be emergent.
    -The Knights Hospitaller: Or the Knights of Saint John on Malta, they saved Italy from Ottoman invasion.

    Also, I think you should combine the Duchies of Calabria and Apulia with the County of Sicily, since they were both run by the Normans. Maybe you could call it Norman Duchies.

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    This is brilliant. I was literally just lamenting the death of a similar Italian based mod that was in development a few months ago. You might want to try rooting out whoever began to make that because they may have some useful time saving stuff for you.
    Could you give a idea of the size and borders of the map? I'm especially intrigued as to whether you're going to include the Balkans and Byzantine Italy was largely left to itself, but then you have Norman Balkan ambitions of the 1080s to consider.
    "If you're boring, no amount of paintballing or high-speed white-water prostitution will change this."





  12. #12
    Jaguar6's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    If you don't mind, here is my proposed faction list...

    The Italian States: The weaker city states that are constantly fighting each other.
    -The Republic of Venice
    -The Republic of Genoa
    -The Republic of Pisa
    -The Republic of Florence
    -The Republic of Sienna
    -The Duchy of Savoy
    -The Duchy of Milan
    -The Duchy of Spoleto
    -The Duchy of Apulia and Calabria
    -The Duchy (Kingdom) of Sicily
    -The Duchy (Kingdom) of Naples
    -The Duchies of Ferrara, Modena and Reggio (Or simply the House of Este.)
    -The Marquisate of Verona
    -The Marquisate of Tuscany (I'm not sure how this would work with Tuscany, Pisa, and Sienna as factions.)
    -The Principality of Salerno
    -The Principality of Capua

    Non-Italian Lesser Powers: Smaller less powerful factions that aren't Italian States.
    -The Zirid Dynasty
    -The Hafsid Dynasty
    -The Emirate of Sicily
    -The Giudicato of Logudoro (Sassari)
    -the Kingdom of Croatia
    -The Kingdom of Serbia
    -The Republic of Ragusa
    -The Knights Hospitaller (If the campaign goes that far.)

    Non-Italian Major Powers: Larger factions that have a lot of power.
    -The Kingdom of Hungary
    -The Byzantine Empire
    -The Holy Roman Empire
    -The Kingdom of France (Emergent)
    -The Kingdom of Spain (Emergent)
    -The Ottoman Empire (Emergent)

    Which makes 30 factions, unless we don't have the Knights Hospitaller or the Marquisate of Tuscany. We could also combine the Hafsid Dynasty and the Zirid Dynasty and call it the Tunisian Emirate, but I'm not sure if that would be really historical.

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    My internet has been on the fritz for the last few days as a result of both some insidious virus i got and from the snow 'storm' we've had here in western Washington (not much snow, but for the area, its intense.)

    Of course, the upside of being snowed in is that I have done a ridiculous amount of work on the mod, and am probably close to having a very rough, but playable version. The downside is that I am going a little stir crazy.

    @emperor basil- I am putting together a actual model of the map based off of geomod, but this is rough idea of the area that this mod will probably cover-


    note that this does not show factions or anything- just a land example. The map I am currently hoping to use, pending an OK by its creator, is about 110 by 130- by contrast, the vanilla campaign map is 295 by 189. Its about as big as most of the kingdoms maps.
    I personally am leaning towards a smaller, more dense map as most mods opt for maps as epically huge as they can handle (with good reason)- I am going for a different experience, but nothing is set in stone (or code.)

    Also, do remember anything about the italian mod that might help me find it? I've poked around a bit but there is so much stuff on site it is slow going.

    @Jaguar6- your enthusiasm is inspiring, and I definitely would like your help if you want to give it.

    I don't have time to research all your suggestions right now, but if I remember both florence and sienna were part of the Tuscan marquisate at the time- and even though they had a definite rivalry to be the most powerful, important city in Tuscany- but in 1061 they were essientially part of the same ruling power.

    I am interested in the "The Duchies of Ferrara, Modena and Reggio (Or simply the House of Este.)" as I have yet to read much about them. I will be doing so!

    In regards to the Halfysid dynasty, I have been back and forth on putting that much focus on the Tunasia area just because its such a small part of the map and partly because I wanted the Zirids to particpate more on the mainland and not have the muslim factions fighitng each other in the corner. But an emergent Halfysid dynasty would certianly be interesting.

    The Hospitallers, Ottomans, French, Spanish, and the Ragusa Republic I will definetly add as emergent, and I might make a seperate provincial campaign that starts in the 14 or 15th century in which they'd be playable- once I get the game set up, doing so would only take a little bit of time.

    I will revise the main post in a bit- I got some other new Ideas I think are cool and easily implementable.
    Last edited by RantingHeretic; December 19, 2008 at 10:07 PM.

  14. #14
    Jaguar6's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    Just PM me if you want my help, I can give you a unit list for every single faction

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    A quick status update-

    Life has started up again, so progress will be a bit slow from here on out. That said, I did a lot while I was able to, including-


    • The map is basically finished, settlements set up and adjusted for historical accuracy and play balance.
    • The factions are implemented, most of the unit trees are already finished and implemented. There is some re skinning left, and the trees will be adjusted over time as I test them out more extensively, but the real hard, monotonous stuff is over.
    • The basic game mechanics are pretty solid, but need to be fine tuned.



    Whats left?


    • Cosmetic/immersion fixes, things like redoing all the faction buttons and load screens and text files and unit banners.
    • Some event creating and scripting.
    • The Mercenary Pool is planned out, but unimplemented.
    • Fun stuff, like historical events and ancillaries.
    • Adding in cool Submods!
    • Trivial stuff- renaming units, setting up slave areas, remaking some unit cards, changing this or that little detail.



    I am working towards releasing a beta 0.5 version in the next few months. This will be a rough version of the game for testing- visually it will not be complete, and some factions, like Serbia and Croatia, which I plan to total convert later, will still be represented by a existing units (and some units themselves may not quite be up to their historical counterparts)- all that will be done before the official release of version 1.0.

    Anyways, sorry if this kinda seems like I'm stammering and breathless, I have about half a minute to right this before I won't have the internet and I didnt want mods to think this was dead and send it to the graveyard.

  16. #16
    Jaguar6's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    I'm very glad to see that the mod is still making progress

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  17. #17

    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    I'd put up some pics, but all I've mostly done is code so it would be kinda useless.
    But yeah, this mod is definitely going to get finished.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    all units will be reskinned?

  19. #19
    Polpolgio's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    I don't see Aragon between the factions... I think Aragon, is an important faction in the Italian history.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Italia Dominatus

    @Giovi- Yes, in the final version all units will be reskinned and many more will be swapped out and replaced with new models (such as the units for Serbia and Croatia). When the final version will be done, I have no clue...but the first version only essentially units will be probably skinned, everything else will use merc/slave textures. the first version will be a beta though, anyway. I intend this to be a total conversion in the end.

    @PolPolgio- I think your right, Aragon was a much bigger player in early Italian history then Spain was, so I will probably rename it and skin accordingly. That said, the emphasis of this mod is on the warring italian city states fighting each other and occasionally being faced with a massive invasion from the HRE or Charles of France, or Aragon. Aragon won't be playable regardless. (perhaps in a provincial campaign though, I like to do some of those when I get the mod done.)

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