Papal Relations

**Jianadaren** · December 12, 2008, 12:28 AM

I just commented on this in a different thread, but realized I was terribly off-topic. So here's the new one.

Anyway, I just attacked a standing Byzantine army with a Crusading Sicilian one, and after the battle my Pope-O-Meter went from 6 crosses to 0.

This is turn 5. I'm allied to the Papal States and I'm paying them 100 florins per turn in tribute. I might've sacked Corinth, but I occupied all my other settlements (only attacking Rebels and Byzantines). I haven't built many religious structures and have trained only one priest. I may have executed an army (not the one that made the relations drop), but I usually ransom. My reputation is Dubious. I'm suffering from Desertion, but I recently discovered how to fix that.

Anyways, why is the Pope really pissed that I attacked the Byzantines? I think it could be a "mishandling of the Crusade" rationale, but I wasn't aware that that was possible, especially not this early. Any input would be appreciated.

**Monsieur Alphonse** · December 12, 2008, 08:46 AM

Does he have an alliance with the Byzzies?

**robbo** · December 12, 2008, 02:07 PM

Perhaps he's annoyed that you requested a crusade against a Muslim territory and then used this army to go fight christians instead?

**kannwar** · December 12, 2008, 03:24 PM

Maybe they scripted that sort of thing happening because there is a well known instance in this case of a catholic faction on crusade being excommunicated for sacking Constantinople (attacking the Byzantines as it were). That was back in the 4th Crusade i think and the Venetian crusading army got caught up in Byzantine politics (something to do with dethroning a father for the son in exchange for financial support for the crusade) but it backfired and they both got dethroned. When it became clear that the new emperor would give them no financial support they laid siege to Constantinople and sacked/massacred the whole city.

When the Pope received the news he condemned the Venetian Doge and excommunicated him. Rightly so, given that their actions ensured everlasting enmity between the Catholic and Orthodox practice. Apparently that event is still affecting religion today.

Take a look at the following website for some interesting info on the Crusades:

http://www.jesuschristsavior.net/Crusades.html

Was a very interesting time of history from an academic viewpoint.

**Mikiez** · December 12, 2008, 03:34 PM

I got Doge from Venice excommunicated lol...
I guess it is for the sole reason that you attacked something other then the crusade target or the targeted faction.

**Jianadaren** · December 12, 2008, 05:18 PM

@ Monsieur Alphonse No alliance.

@ robbo: I think you're on the right track, but I'm still not sitting comfortably. The Byzantines are not Catholic, so the Pope shouldn't be upset along "killing one's own religious kin" line of thinking, but on the other hand, the Pope doesn't get upset when one attacks rebel settlements in Catholic areas with crusading armies, so this suggests to me that the Pope is kinda indifferent to whether or not you directly go for the Crusading target.

I just had a thought though - maybe because crusading armies represent the force of the Church, by attacking the Byzantines with a crusading army, one is making an enemy of the Church. The Pope would indeed by pissed with me if they became enemies with the Byzantines because of my transgressions.

@ kannwar: Very interesting, though I hesitate at the thought that CA is that specific in its scripts.

@ Mikiez: I guess you might be right, but I'm pretty sure you can attack rebels with impunity. I think attacking Muslims must be fine from a Papal standpoint (i.e. Crusade against Turks and then attack the Moors w/ crusading army).