Very Hard on VH/VH

[RantingHeretic]

I just started playing this mod a few weeks ago- I wish I would have downloaded it far earlier but I must admit after exhausting retrofit-vanilla and lands to conquer and stainless steel, I wasn't too fired up for 'another' grand campaign kingdoms mod.

How wrong I was.

It has all sorts of great stuff like the others, but it has one thing that no other mod I've played (yet) has had- a consistent challenge. I've played maybe half a campaign as the Keivan Rus, and some 30 or 40 turns as Milan, and each one has been a grueling, nerve biting affair.

I've always felt Medieval II was far too easy- and while mods are great and all, I never feel like I'm in danger of losing even remotely. Maybe a battle here or a city or two over the course of a campaign, but never the game except for one unlucky turn where I got crusades and invaded by the mongols. This mod, so far, on VH/VH, has brought back that feeling of never really been safe or secure on in control- Im sure some people love to play as massive empires slaughtering their way across the map, but I much prefer to feel like im on the brink of annhilation.

As the kevian rus, I had no idea the game would be hard and made a bunch of overconfident decisions that saw poland and the mongols massively steal land form me, and as milan, I am in such precarious position that the HRE or Sicily could invade and I would have little defense (except some heroic victories.)

The BAI and CAI are both really good- but I am abit confused, as I thought they were running Lusteds AI, which powers both Lands to Conquer and Stainless Steel. Is it not the same version?

Also, so as not to gush too much, I have noticed issues that were common of an earlier form of Lusteds CAI- small, one or two units stacks running around endlessly, surronding cities, agents doing very wierd things (I have four HRE preists around my city of bologna. They have been thier since I took the city, some 25 turns ago.)

I may be full of , but I remember earlier versions of Lands to Conquer and Stainless Steel doing this as well. I'm not complaining- playing the game has been more fun then its been in a long time, but I'm just curious I guess as to why this version of Lusteds AI is so much harder then it is in Lands to Conquer or Stainless Steel?

It also has to do with mod balancing, I'm sure, and this mod is excellently balanced to kick your teeth out.

[pwf224]

I completely agree with you RantingHeretic. KGCM is the best mod IMO out there for kingdoms. I tried SS to see what the buzz was about and it just didnt feel right for me. You are also correct in the fact the the CAI seems to work better in KGCM than in the others. I beleive this is due to the balancing issues, as you assumed. Dave and the team have spent hours upon hours making every faction as balanced and historically accurate, without sacrificing playability. For a real challenge, I suggest playing as England, the Teutonic Order, or the Moors. They are truly the most challenging.

Also, in other news. xeryx is currently porting his XAI (xcai and xbai) to KGCM, which will greatly improve AI over Lusted's mod, for a better challenge.

[kevincompton]

I completely agree with you RantingHeretic. KGCM is the best mod IMO out there for kingdoms. I tried SS to see what the buzz was about and it just didnt feel right for me. You are also correct in the fact the the CAI seems to work better in KGCM than in the others. I beleive this is due to the balancing issues, as you assumed. Dave and the team have spent hours upon hours making every faction as balanced and historically accurate, without sacrificing playability. For a real challenge, I suggest playing as England, the Teutonic Order, or the Moors. They are truly the most challenging.

Also, in other news. xeryx is currently porting his XAI (xcai and xbai) to KGCM, which will greatly improve AI over Lusted's mod, for a better challenge.

Playing as England is hard? I would imagine it would be less hard then the smaller kingdoms as they start so powerful..

[RantingHeretic]

Yeah, I didnt mean to make it sound like I was complaining about the AI- a few hours ago I swear to god Venice hid an army in the tree's, waited until I left a city largely open, and pounced. This is easily the best CAI I have yet played.
What is XAI like? When I started dling mods it wasnt out- I tired every AI mod I could, and found Lusteds to be generally the best, but I never tried Xeryx's...if you know, could you illuminate a littel bit?
Also, I see you are a team member- you guys did an awesome job. I am even more blown now then when I posted.

Edit: A few seconds ago I entered diplomacy with the HRE. They wanted trade rights. I countered- trade rights for map information. They got mad and said they wanted just me to give map information, in return for trade rights. I knew they were at war with a bunch of people, so I said -give me map information, or I will attack. They got all cowardly and gave me money, trade rights, map information as long I wouldn't attack.

If I sound like a overexcited fan boy when I write that, its just because I have never, since Rome, had a diplomatic exchange that was remotely that interesting. I threatened them to get what I want, when they wouldn't give it otherwise- maybe I've just been unlucky, but has that EVER worked in this series? I honestly can't remember. I cannot re-iterate how ridicoulously stoked I am. I don't even care about the two minute load times between turns (my computer is very sad/)

[pwf224]

It sounds like you are having a very interesting campaign. I have been playing KGCM for so long now that I have gotten used to the CAI and BAI, so what you are experiencing as new is regular for me, lol.

IMO XBAI is much improved over Lusted's battle AI in many ways. However, I have yet to extensively test the XCAI because 1)I am in the middle of a KGCM hotseat and can't have a different CAI than everyone else, and 2) because xeryx hasn't fully implemented it into KGCM. I have high hopes for it and hope it will improve even further on Lusted's massive improvements.

I would also like to thank you for you compliments, and then redirect 95% of your praise to davescarface. He did most of the work, and the mod was completely his vision. The mod team has definately contributed loads to the last phase of the mod, but the majority of KGCM is purely dave's excellent work.

[Dave Scarface]

This version of CAI is more aggressive than Lusteds CAI in other Kingdoms mods. Because I made my own improvements to the code. Most of it is still Lusteds own work though, and he should still take most of the credit.

Also like has already been said, the CAI performs better in my mod because every faction starts off in a stronger position. This works better for the AI than in maps like the original where I think there were far to many rebel regions. The map starting positions are very well balanced. And the largest factions have more enemies than the rest to deal with. The final ingredient to this mix is a good money and debt script.

Dave

[gojira]

I played england on hard/hard, just to figure out @move 81 (when france kicked me out of europe and norway just launched an INVASION! (didnt know the AI was able to invade england!!!In vanilla it wouldnt ever!)... well, I started again lol.

But ireland is too tough I think. Gaelic archers and feudal knights against spear carrying city militaria is a tough job -.-

But as the thread starter said: Awesome mod! Best I came across so far.

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Allow me to agree wiith the sentiments expressed here. I always end up coming back to this mod. I rate it even above all other mods out there. Including the RTW mods I have played. Only Roma Surrectum comes close, and Invasio Barbarorum is very very hard.

In the end though. I prefer the medievil period, and KGCM has the playability, stability and the challenge.

[Silent Assassin]

This Mod seems nice I will have to try it out. I only played Lands to Conquer and a bit of COA

[THARN]

I finished my Teutonic Campaign. H/H I would never attempt Vh /vh As I wouldnt have a chance.
but it took me over 500 turns- to win it.. was enjoyable the entire time.. alot of turns was spent building up trading from the new world as I had Poland as an ally- 4 of their cities were required for me to take for the win so I felt bad about the back stab -but victory over rides alot of the sentiment.

[Grislok]

Scarface Dave rocked it. I had tried many mods and was dubious of this one at first blush. By far the most enjoyable I have found and the worst battle win/loss record I have ever posted. I particularly am grateful that Scarface Dave cracked and gave to his masses a fully functional hotseat. Why can not anyone do this for even one other mod or version of TW? Everyone will give you the "easy" fix but it never works for me. The best way to enjoy any TW game is hotseat with friends so for me this is the greatest mod based on that alone, not to mention how thoroughly it already rocked as a one player game. Thanks a ton Scarface Dave

[HeeRoMaKi]

I just played VH/VH as Teutonic Order and lost on turn 109.. but gotta say it was the most epic time i've had in the game so far. I was fighting over only 4 towns the entire time due to money issues and a constent invasion from lithuania

[pwf224]

England has a good starting position, but they are surrounded by enemies. Ireland and Wales start at war with them. France has eyes on Normandy, and Scotland, once it either beats Norway or Norway overcomes them usually will attack England next. You should try it. Its the Welsh that will give you teh hardest time with 2 garrison script cities.

[Glabro]

Nice to hear that KGCM seems to be a very balanced, fun and challenging base for M2 "Vanilla-style" gaming.

Now that Xeryx is done with XAI for KGCM, I think I'll be testing it out in due time.