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  1. #1

    Default 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    I begin here a thread about a personal project for a mod devoted to the Thirty Years War (30YW).



    My idea was to show how this war, in principle a minor problem between the Habsburg emperor of the Holy Roman Empire and the Bohemian rebels, was extended to most of the big powers in Europe, with consequences both inside and outside of the HRE. I started the work with the map, and at the moment I have a functional, but simple map, with the main regions outlined, as shown in this image:

    As I feel the 30YW was not only a German war, I've included portions of France, Sweden, Poland, and Italy, in some cases due only to geographical needs.

    Regarding the factions, my idea was to prevent the presence of a large rebel faction, as it is not logical for me that having a war against the Livonian rebels, for example, represents the war against the French rebels on the other side of the map.
    This would be the faction selection screen for the campaign:


    I have classified the different factions present in the mod in 5 groups. I would like that each group had a different behavior pattern (we will see if it is possible).

    Imperial forces:


    - The Austrian Habsburgs represent the HRE power, trying to impose the catholic religion. I've assigned them the regions of: Austria, Hungary, Tyrol, Styria, Carinthia, Carniola and Croatia.
    - The Catholic League, leadered by Bavaria, is the main allied of the emperor inside the HRE. Regions: Bavaria, Passau, Augsburg, Würzburg, Mainz, Koln, Trier, Worms, Münster, Salzburg, and Trento.
    - The Spanish Habsburgs, the main allied outside the HRE due to family links. Regions: Flanders, Brabant, Luxembourg, Franche Comté, and Milan. It should receive reinforcements coming from the regions outside the map (Naples, Sicily, Spain).

    Anti-imperial forces:

    - Bohemia is the starting point of this war due to a religion conflict. This lutheran faction helds the regions of Bohemia, Moravia, Lusatia, and Silesia.
    - Protestant Union, leadered by the Palatinate elector (calvinist). In fact he was crowned as Bohemian king instead of the emperor at the beginning of the war. Regions: Palatinate, Württenberg, Baden, Nürnberg, Ulm, Hesse-Kassel, Ansbach, Bayreuth, Alsace, and Jülich.
    - Denmark (lutheran) was the first foreign power that helped the protestant rebellion. It has only two regions: Jutland and Norway.
    - Sweden (lutheran) had an important role in this war over a long period, in an attempt to gain influence in the HRE affairs and to conquer the Baltic coasts. Regions: Scania, Svealand, Götaland, and Livonia.
    - France (catholic) had as main goal the weakening of the Habsburgs, mainly the Spanish ones. Regions: Ile de France, Picardie, Champagne, Bourgogne, Dauphiné, and Provence.
    - United Provinces (calvinist) also wanted to follow the war against the Spanish Habsburgs. Regions: Holland and Friesland.

    Other powers inside the HRE:

    As commented before, the idea was to include all the regions inside a true faction, and in this way perhaps some factions are not historically accurate. In a first approach the two remaining electorates were included.
    - Saxony, with two regions, Saxony-Wittenberg and Saxony-Gotha.
    - Brandenburg, with three regions: Brandenburg, Prussia, and Berg.
    The other four factions were chosen due to three reasons:
    - Pomerania due to the partition suffered at the end of the war. Regions: Western Pomerania and Eastern Pomerania.
    - Lower Saxony, corresponding to one of the imperial circles. Regions: Holstein, Mecklenburg, Bremen, Hamburg, Brünswick-Lüneburg (symbol taken from it), Magdeburg, and Kalenberg.
    - Westphalia, also corresponding to one of the imperial circles. Regions: Westphalia, Paderborn, Nassau, Oldenburg, and Osnabrück.
    - Lorraine (symbol not shown), includes all the regions in southern Germany that cannot be included in any of the other factions: Lorraine, Frankfurt, Zweibrücken, Breisgau, and Hohenzollern.

    External powers, with few participation in the war:

    - Venice: Veneto and Dalmatia.
    - Savoy: Savoy and Piamonte.
    - Switzerland: divided in two regions.
    - Poland: Mazovia, Galitzia, Malopolska, and Wielkopolska.

    Rebels, that will appear in the form of horde:

    - Hungarians
    - Transilvanians

    At the moment the mod has:
    - A functional simple strat map (process accelerated thanks to Geomod tool: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=201955, and WorldWind http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...92#post3868792)
    - Artwork (loading screens, etc)
    - Symbols (shields made using the B. Ward's template: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=187265) and strat map banners
    - A 12 turns per year script and some minor coding changes.

    What is needed for strat map:
    - To complete the map: ground types, level and buildings in settlements, resources
    - To adapt character models from FKoC and settlement models by phoen!x. This is an draft about my idea for this adaptation

    - To include historical names for the different factions, and portraits for historical characters
    - To adapt the building system
    - To design different AI behaviour types for each kind of faction
    - To design a full script for historical events, emerging factions, etc

    What is needed for battles:
    - A complete units system. My idea is to adapt the models/textures from FKoC in order to speed up the process.
    - Unit stats.

    Any help would be very welcome, mainly in these aspects:
    - Mapping: in order to finish the current strat map
    - Modelling and texturing: in order to adapt the strat and battle models from FKoC
    - Historical research: resources, size of settlements, historical events, units and uniforms

    Finally I want to acknowledge AlphaDelta the permission to use the models/textures of his excellent units, and phoen!x for the use of the settlement/siege models.

    Cheers.

  2. #2
    Swagger's Avatar Imperial Coffee-Runner
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    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    that's superb


    any idea when it will be released?
    Under the Patronage of the Dreadful cedric37!
    Ancs Guide, Emergent Factions , Yes/No Events |L'Outremer for Modders| Swagger's Skymod


  3. #3
    Phunkracy's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    Great, although Livonia should belong to Poland, also our faction symbol is not historically accurate.
    You should definetly see this mod:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=739
    (XVIIth century mod)




  4. #4
    Gwyn ap Nud's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    Looking forward to it.

    Cogito Ergo Vicco

  5. #5

    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    All there is to say is this is the period mod I have yearned for most.
    I thank thee O Monkwarrior grovel, grovel drivel....

  6. #6
    Chevalier IX's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    I want to personally thank you for going ahead with the initiative to finally explore this time period and its events.I have been looking forward to such a thing for quiete some time now and it is pleasant to see that it has finally come about.

  7. #7

    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    Nice. Very nice.

    I thought for a long time about making a 30yw mod. Especially making the HRE map would be quite a challenge.
    What is the size of your map?


    have lots of fun making this!

  8. #8
    Stephan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    great work

    Yes, I know that Ishtar is spelled wrong

  9. #9

    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    Was waiting for it since months.

    +rep!!!

    Only one thing: shouldn't Austrian, Italian, Polish and French region be divided a bit? They seams enormous in comparison with central German ones... But maybe there's a strategical reason for it, is there?

    Moerover, in order to get some unique units such as polish winged hussars and in general to add FKoC's rooster something interesting, I strongly suggest to ask XVII century Total War to give permission to use some of their Swedish, Polish and mercenary soldiers. XVII century mod already allowed XVI century mod to use some stuff, so I think they'll be gald to help you too. They made wonderful hussars, cuirassiers, pikemen and musketeers (and much more) which I think will be useful in your mod.

    Some pics:
    Last edited by demostene; December 11, 2008 at 08:24 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    Thanks to all of you for the interest.

    @loet66
    Yes, I have the permission.
    In fact I must have a look for some parts of the FKoC mod that are not developed by AlphaDelta, just to see if they can be adapted and to ask permission to the corresponding authors.

    @Phunkracy
    Please, could you point me to the correct symbol?
    I'll look for the correct map distribution regarding the problem of Livonia. I had the idea that Sweden had conquered it before the 30 years war and for gameplay it would be nice to have a Polish-Swedish war before the involvement of Sweden in Germany.

    @on a mountain
    As any game, 30YW will have to be a simplification of the real situation. The map is medium size (I haven´t here the files) and the current version has 89 regions (if I remember well). In the period of the mod, Germany was divided into hundreds of small counties, dukedoms, imperial cities, bishoprics, principalities, etc. The map cannot reproduce it accurately, but I would change the region distribution (keeping a maximum of 100 regions) if somebody shows me a better way.
    Another point is playability. I feel that sieges are quite boring, and I prefer open field battles. The high number of regions (and settlements) increases the number of siege battles.

    @demostene
    Thanks for the +rep. Undoubtely I will contact the development team of XVII century mod, as their contribution to swedish and polish units can be very interesting.
    The difference in size of the regions in map borders and in the center has two objectives: to drive the efforts of any faction towards the involvement in the war (with borders it is not possible to fulfil the victory conditions) and to show the difference in "politics", as Germany was a conglomerate of different "states", whereas the others (Poland, France, Spain...) were countries with a central power.
    In any case, I have included hidden_resources to give higher recruitment capacity to the large regions, and it will have also the consequences in economy. Having 10 small regions won't be better than 4 large ones, except regarding the final victory.
    Last edited by Monkwarrior; December 11, 2008 at 09:41 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkwarrior View Post
    @demostene
    Thanks for the +rep. Undoubtely I will contact the development team of XVII century mod, as their contribution to swedish and polish units can be very interesting.
    The difference in size of the regions in map borders and in the center has two objectives: to drive the efforts of any faction towards the involvement in the war (with borders it is not possible to fulfil the victory conditions) and to show the difference in "politics", as Germany was a conglomerate of different "states", whereas the others (Poland, France, Spain...) were countries with a central power.
    In any case, I have included hidden_resources to give higher recruitment capacity to the large regions, and it will have also the consequences in economy. Having 10 small regions won't be better than 4 large ones, except regarding the final victory.
    Oh. I though there was a reason for it. Perfect, I do agree.

    So, only one other thing: Venice expends too much southwards including Papal and Tuscan territories. Maybe you can cut the map a bit or add a "rebel" region (Bologna).

    PS: note Istria (the croatian peninsula looking like an arrow) is Venetian.
    Last edited by demostene; December 11, 2008 at 01:44 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkwarrior View Post
    I'll look for the correct map distribution regarding the problem of Livonia. I had the idea that Sweden had conquered it before the 30 years war and for gameplay it would be nice to have a Polish-Swedish war before the involvement of Sweden in Germany.
    That part of Livonia in your map didn't belong either to Sweden or to Poland. There was Duchy of Courland, which was vassal state to Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth.

  13. #13
    Carl von Döbeln's Avatar Crossing the Rubicon
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    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    I would like to help with this mod, i know pretty much everthing about Swedens involvement.

  14. #14

    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    It looks great.

    Maybe i can help you sometime in the future.

  15. #15
    Nevada's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    wow, amazing work!



  16. #16

    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    Looks real good but Scania belonged to Denmark at the time period and in what year does this mod start?
    These fine gentlemen's have thanks to their consistent idiotic posts have earned their place on my ignore list: mrmouth, The Illusionist, motiv-8, mongrel, azoth, thorn777 and elfdude. If you want to join their honourable rank you just have to post idiotic posts and you will get there in no time.

  17. #17

    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    because of the many regions actually there were only a few factions and 4 actual wars in this war:


    1. Bohemia and Pfalz (part of bavaria) against Habsburg
    2. Denmark and Saxony against Habsburg
    3. Sweden against Habsburg
    4. Sweden and France against Habsburg

    This could be took into accout for developing the map.

    source wikipedia
    Last edited by phoen!x; December 11, 2008 at 12:47 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    Very interesting. I shall keep watch to see where this one goes.
    Son of PW

  19. #19
    KoRnflakes's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    Pfff !
    Cheap copy ...
    (of course not yours Monguntiacum)
    Danke King Kong dass ich Third Age ab meinem Geburtstag zocken kann

  20. #20
    Marcion's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: 30YW: The Thirty Years War

    This is certainly a great start for a mod. I really like this period too. The only complaint I have for what's here, is some of the heraldry is so cluttered, it would be hard to identify on the battlefield. Maybe just use the Burgundy Cross for Spain?

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