What's the Difference Between Patriotism and Nationalism?

[Exarch]

As of late, the media and certain individuals will use specific words to describe people passionate about their country with the impression being good or bad wholly dependant on 2 terms which invariably mean the same thing-a patriot, or a nationalist?

A positive connotation of someone passionate about their country will be termed a 'patriot; a negative connotation of the same thing will be described as a 'nationalist'.

Before i go on to explain the differences between the 2, i'd like to ask you:

What, do you think is the difference between a Patriot and a Nationalist?
and what is the impact of such a differentiation?

Discuss

[mao chi x]

As i've been taught. The difference is that a Patriot is proud of his country, but a Nationalist places his country above other countries.

[Kiljan Arslan]

As i've been taught. The difference is that a Patriot is proud of his country, but a Nationalist places his country above other countries.

THat I do but I also realize when my country would be best backing off like in South AMerica for the moment my country should just ignore Chavez.

[IeyasuTokugawa]

As i've been taught. The difference is that a Patriot is proud of his country, but a Nationalist places his country above other countries.

and american patriots dont believe that their country is better than others? ask yourself seriously. the only differince between nationalism and patriotism is mythos and fictional beliefs.
The germans listened to christian nationalist spooks who said the norse and scandinavians were the prominent people; mostly all races believe this at one point, and they bring it to another level by raising the state to an awareness that creates war and reason for genocide.
Patriotism is the proud belief of past heroic deeds; no matter how miscontrued or denial of other events after the fact that dont add up to their great predecessors.

[Yuiis]

and american patriots dont believe that their country is better than others? ask yourself seriously. the only differince between nationalism and patriotism is mythos and fictional beliefs.
The germans listened to christian nationalist spooks who said the norse and scandinavians were the prominent people; mostly all races believe this at one point, and they bring it to another level by raising the state to an awareness that creates war and reason for genocide.
Patriotism is the proud belief of past heroic deeds; no matter how miscontrued or denial of other events after the fact that dont add up to their great predecessors.

Exactly. The problem is not the word. The problem is how you execute and express your degree of nationalism or patriotism. There are very fervent nationalists (or patriots however you want to call them) that are much more mild tempered, democratic and autocritic than many other supposed "citizens-of-the-world" super-cool people.

[Exarch]

the two terms are very close like 2 concentric circles, and can often lead to the other and vice versa.

the connotation of a 'nationalist' is someone who is irrationally defensive about their coutnry that they canno critique it or see the wrongs of it. As far as they're concerned, their country can do no wrong and this can even lead to episodes of historical revisionism.

a patriot is a positive connotation of a 'nationalist', since it implies that such people are actually more reasonable and level headed than the hot headed 'nationalist'.
people termed 'patriots' are often those who have died for their country (dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori), or who keenly critique their own country's misgivings and failings-often at the risk of attack by nationalists.

that's my take on the difference betweena patriot and a nationalist.

i say, both should go to hell.
division and tribalism are what spawn natioanlist/patriotic tendencies; worse, it is elitist and too easily translated into racial ideology and ethnocentrism.

[wilpuri]

Ideally, none.

But nationalism and patriotism are not monolithic concepts that are always interpreted in the same way.

This "patriotism is being proud of your country, nationalism is hating others" BS is simply just a mantra for fools who don't know anything about the subject matter.

You are simply projecting your own misunderstandings with simple, yet meaningless phrases.

At its most fundamental level, nationalism means supporting national self-determination.

[Exarch]

Ideally, none.

But nationalism and patriotism are not monolithic concepts that are always interpreted in the same way.

This "patriotism is being proud of your country, nationalism is hating others" BS is simply just a mantra for fools who don't know anything about the subject matter.

You are simply projecting your own misunderstandings with simple, yet meaningless phrases.

At its most fundamental level, nationalism means supporting national self-determination.

interesting
care to expound on that?

[mao chi x]

At its most fundamental level, nationalism means supporting national self-determination.

So your suggesting that Communists are Nationalists?

[wilpuri]

So your suggesting that Communists are Nationalists?

Communists are internationalists. If they're nationalist, they aren't really communist. Humans eat fish. Shark it fish. Are you suggesting humans are sharks?

[mao chi x]

Where does it say that communism is supportive of self-determination?

Well, i'll just say it now then: We do support the right to self-determination.
Though there are debates about this concept within the movement obviously. But that means Internationalists can support the right for self-determination.
So, where does that leave the Nationalists?

[wilpuri]

Well, i'll just say it now then: We do support the right to self-determination.
Though there are debates about this concept within the movement obviously. But that means Internationalists can support the right for self-determination.
So, where does that leave the Nationalists?

If you as a communist support national self-determination, how does that realize itself when there are several nations inhabiting the same state?

If you as communist support national self-determination, why are most communists and their ideological descendants for the elimination of borders? World government is an old dream within socialism.

Because communism is not for national self-determination, even if you are.

Nationalism is explicitly so. Communists reject the very notion of nation.

Stardreamer,

From an earlier post of mine:

there is no difference between the 2; they're both the same terms used by people or pundits to describe or denigrate people they do/dont like.
eg 'american patriots', 'russian nationalists' etc etc.

Also to me it has seemed artificial to divide the two. In Finnish, people are far more likely to call themselves isänmaallinen = Patriotic (lit. fatherland-ly) than kansallismielinen = nationalist [lit. nation-sympathetic or something ]. The latter is used almost exclusively by political nationalists to denote that their nationalism is political, but it does not have the negative ring of "nationalism".

[Strattios]

I believe these are both terms that only an individual can give themselves. And to claim that one or either are negative is bull. They both mean that the individual has a strong positive view of their national identity. Some people accuse them of being a negative entity because they don't like the influence that some other nations have. The main reason is that they view this as a threat to what makes them proud of their nation. Neither is proud of their nation simply for its name or location, but rather what that nation stands for and the rights and freedoms granted to its people.

One of the biggest conflicts over this idea seems to be Europe where people who want unification consider those who don't as "nationalists" and make it seem like a bad thing. However, there is more reason than dislike of others, it is concern that your what you like about your nation may no longer remain. It is in essence similar to a small Democracy being taken over by a large Democracy. Where the small nation had certain rights supported by the people, the nation they are now part of may no longer accept those as being rights. And being the minority they can't make an appeal to maintain these rights.

[Manco]

Depends if you use the vulgar meanings or not. The vulgar meaning is patriot good, nationalist bad.

It's more correct usage is pretty much what Wilpuri said.
A nationalist can only be so if there's a nation, for example a Belgian nationalist doesn't exist, a Flemish or Walloon one can. Nationalism has got gotten a negative connotation because of what some perceive as racial elements in nationalism, taken to the extreme by Nazi Germany. (but this isn't a rule by any chance, since in many countries certain minorities have become firmly a part of the nation)
Patriots are those who do pretty much the same as a nationalist but towards his state instead of nation.

[StarDreamer]

I never quite caught that there was much of a difference between a nationalist or patriot. My mind has somehow lumped them into the category of synonyms with a negliable difference if anything.

So, just as a question. What would you guys say a person that only wants the best for his own country should be called(but not in any way that his country would be superior)?

[Exarch]

I never quite caught that there was much of a difference between a nationalist or patriot. My mind has somehow lumped them into the category of synonyms with a negliable difference if anything.

So, just as a question. What would you guys say a person that only wants the best for his own country should be called(but not in any way that his country would be superior)?

well if ur some reporter on the news and want your viewers to like the people ur talking about, you'd call them 'patriotis', if you dont like them, you call them 'nationalists'
i mean, why didnt mel gibson call his film in 2000, 'the Nationalist'?
it has a different ring to it than 'patriot'

[Tchouk]

The problem is that the concepts of ethos, nation and country overlap and have no clear bounds or definition.

[Roman_Wolf]

What's the Difference Between Patriotism and Nationalism?

I don't know the difference but I do know the similarity:
THEY BOTH SUCK!

[Pallantides]

nationalist just sounds better then patriot.

[mao chi x]

If you as communist support national self-determination, why are most communists and their ideological descendants for the elimination of borders? World government is an old dream within socialism.

Thats on the very long run. What should we do in between, eh?
Nations will eventually dissapear when there is no more economic need for them. Kind of like my country, which is comprised of a kaziljon regions with different cultures and languages, and now it's 'one'. And apparently we have an 'identity' as well.