My Grand Strategy (HRE)

[Exarch]

tell me whot u think:
playing as the HRE, i've always hated the starting position (as anyone can guess from my many threads about isolationism and migration) but i've loved everything else about them from their exclusive ability to use teutonic knights, the cool banners and the imperial knights.
Thusly, i've thought over a Grand Plan, and i'd like your 2 cents regarding it:

Phase 1

1) Send princess to France, and exchange all their settlements for my current ones (after iv'e finished destroying every building in starting settlements for the $$) with the exception of the rich city of vienna (naturally i'll have made vienna my capital and i'm assuming the french will keep paris as their capital. Will also try to get tribute or $$ and alliance and trade rights from it all.
If this succeeds my princess will get major charm stats, and if i must, i'll marry the poor girl to the dauphin. heartless, yes i know

2) concentrate on teching up and building up in france proper-the great thing about france's starting pos. is that u need only concentrate on 3 fronts or 2 depending on how good a diplomat u are, or how ruthless u are with the english.

after taking settlements, my eastern border with France will be predominantly forts using the river (forgot its name, is it the rhine?) as the natural border

(Image Goes Here)

Phase 2:

1) After Eastern and Southern borders of france proper are secure, commence invasion of britain; strike as fast and hard as possible, before the pope goes all pacifist on me.
If i do this right, the war should only take 5 turns or so.

2) in the meantime, because the french will still have paris, i'll try to buy it off them (with the sacking loot from england) but if they wont sell it to me, i'll send in spies and cause a revolt and come in 'liberating' the parisians from their evil rogue state leaders.

Phase 3

1) with england under my iron fist, i'll start converting all but one settlement (caernarvon) into cities. England will be my breadbasket cash cow for my war effort and one fort should be enough to keep the peace in the region.

2) with the extra $$$ coming in, i'll start buying papal favour, will have to give up vienna at this stage cuz it's too far away from the core of my empire. i've decided to gift vienna to the venetians in return for military assistance agaisnt the milanese (if they're not alreayd at war), or if they are, i'll give it to the hungarians or byzantines to keep the venetians in check. Muahahahahahahahahahahahaha listen to me, dont i sound like one of those idiots from PFANAC?? playing metternich and whatnot.
anyhow, moving on...

Phase 4

1) with my eastern and northern forntier relatively secure i'll try to take milan and florence for the extra $$ and to keep an eye on the ventians and the pope, but perhaps i should bother. too many enemies in a region with too many expansionist powers. hmmm may have to shelve it for now.

2) commence invasion of spain. intention is to conquer the whole of spain and turn it into another breadbasket/$$$ cow for my war effort, just like in britain. ARoun this time will start investing in a navy for the western med.


so guys, wot u think?
anything i left out?

[Viking Prince]

If this too far off topic, I am sorry.

I do not understand the motivation behind migration. In this case just start with the French and be happy. Or add a money cheat to the French if that is the issue.

I guess the problem with the 'plan' as presented is the French in trading end up crippled. You no longer are really playing the French position since the neo-HRE are crippled.

If this is derailing too much, I will go back and delete -- you can pm me. I really am interested in your thoughts though.

Regards.

[StalkAndStrike]

Perhaps you are depending too much on your diplomats/princess's successess? what is france declines? If I where you I would just migrate in a military fashion since this is impossible without the financial support of already existing settlements. Once you aquired the settlements that you wanted, either give away your otehr settlements or force them to rebel by rising taxes and removing all garrisons,

Also Viking prince I do not quite undertsand what you mean by neo HRE being crippled? If your goals were to keep france an active faction AND to take over their positions, why not just take over the british ilse instead of going through all of that trouble?

[Lord Feloric's Ambassador]

My Lord is all for unconventional strategies, but if your looking for the best way to succeed with the Holy Roman Empire then he suggests you use more traditional strategies. Just take as many rebel settlements as possible, eliminate Denmark, and then expand east, west, or south (depending on preference). Although, expanding west would probably be the best option.

And with Denmark in your control you will be in good position to launch a seaward invasion into England, which will open up more military opportunities.

[platinumkiller]

Lord Feloric's Ambassador is pretty much right take all rebel places and have a big empire perduceing cash and nice armies

[StalkAndStrike]

yeah go with that, simple but effective

[Exarch]

thanks everyone for your contributions

@vikingprince
i much prefer the HRE's units like the imperial knights, the teutonic kngihts and the zweihanders which cut through anything. also i perceive the HRE as a more 'glorious faction'.
unfortunately i dont like the HRE's starting position with potential foes on all 4 sides, and i'm a major fan of changing history with a good migration

@stalk&strike
i'm counting on the fact that the french will accept it because i'm offering more settlements to them (albeit with pilfered buildings) and an marriage alliance which will be considered a generous offer. the AI almost never turns down generous offers especially from neutral opponents.

@Lord Feloric's Ambassador
His lordship's ambassador is too kind, but as i've stated before, the HRE's position is strategically weak being at the middleground of europe with no wall to back yourself against. France on the other hand has the sea to its back and with spain or england, i'll have a secure fiefdom to extract taxes and $$$ for my war effort.
however, how true is it that french cities dont generte so much $$$?
on the note regarding denmark, i also enjoy using a pincer attack so after i've taken england i may open up a new front against france via taking scandinavia and retake deutschland proper from 2 or even 3 fronts if i've taken out the milanese.

[Viking Prince]

thanks everyone for your contributions

@vikingprince
i much prefer the HRE's units like the imperial knights, the teutonic kngihts and the zweihanders which cut through anything. also i perceive the HRE as a more 'glorious faction'.
unfortunately i dont like the HRE's starting position with potential foes on all 4 sides, and i'm a major fan of changing history with a good migration

Thanks for the response. I am more concerned with the gutting of the HRE settlements prior to the trade though. This seems to be gutting an opponant and thus not giving you the challange that the starting positions represent.

[Sodbuster]

I think it's a sound strategy. It should be interesting as well since it hasn't been done before, instead of the standard expand/conquer. I don't understand why you would want to give Vienna away in Phase 3, then take Milan and Florence (which are right next to Vienna) in Phase 4. It's an easy city to defend that makes a ton of money. My advice: Keep it. Good luck!

[Exarch]

Thanks for the response. I am more concerned with the gutting of the HRE settlements prior to the trade though. This seems to be gutting an opponant and thus not giving you the challange that the starting positions represent.

thanks for the input, vikingprince
i usually play on vh/vh anywayz, so the decks' alreayd pretty stacked against me

the challenge in this gambit is diplomacy, and plus the thinking long term, like a very long grueling chess game where the situation changes with every shift of a unit

@sodbuster
thanks for the reply
i'm thinking of giving away vienna because usually as a matter of course, the venetians will always want to go after it.
it is indeed a rich city, ocne upgraded it can net u about 5k per turn and that's heaps of $$$.

[manofarms89]

it does indeed seem like a sound (and fun) stratagem. but will ever attempt to retake your old cities from France? also you may be relying too much on how much money sacking will give you. im not sure if it alone can support your blitzkrieg like conquests. but i could be wrong.

p.s. glad to see you're back

[Exarch]

it does indeed seem like a sound (and fun) stratagem. but will ever attempt to retake your old cities from France? also you may be relying too much on how much money sacking will give you. im not sure if it alone can support your blitzkrieg like conquests. but i could be wrong.

p.s. glad to see you're back

hey manofarms
great to be back
i will indeed be taking back my own cities after spain and england. perhpas when i've secured northern italy and denmark, i'll go for a triple pincer strike from the west, north and south and take out the french. but it all comes down to $$$

once i've taken the northern italian cities, like milan genoa, venice (yes, that'll precipitate war, i'm afraid) i'll be looking at 15000-20000 per turn at least. with that amount of income, i can tech up and start fundign teutonic knights and zweihanders.

the reason i need to take out france is because i need to ensure compelte dominance in the western catholic world before i can march on rome.
With Rome and inevitably the whole italian peninsula, i'll be happy resting on my laurels making my final HRE borders, the border between modern germany adn poland (that river that runs between the 2), the river across from vienna and Ragusa.
when that happens, i'll be conducting lightning fast raids on the byzantines and the turks ie sacking settlements for the $$$, destroyin all buldings and leaving the city and letting it rebel......


Hmmmm, perhaps i might be able to 'convince' the Holy Father to relocate his capital to....the levant? after i've taken italy whole, i've decided the best course of action would be to offer him settlements in the levant (taken from my lightning quick raids) whereby he may continue doing god's holy work agaisnt the Unbelievers....and the mongol hordes

[manofarms89]

hey manofarms
great to be back
i will indeed be taking back my own cities after spain and england. perhpas when i've secured northern italy and denmark, i'll go for a triple pincer strike from the west, north and south and take out the french. but it all comes down to $$$

once i've taken the northern italian cities, like milan genoa, venice (yes, that'll precipitate war, i'm afraid) i'll be looking at 15000-20000 per turn at least. with that amount of income, i can tech up and start fundign teutonic knights and zweihanders.

the reason i need to take out france is because i need to ensure compelte dominance in the western catholic world before i can march on rome.
With Rome and inevitably the whole italian peninsula, i'll be happy resting on my laurels making my final HRE borders, the border between modern germany adn poland (that river that runs between the 2), the river across from vienna and Ragusa.
when that happens, i'll be conducting lightning fast raids on the byzantines and the turks ie sacking settlements for the $$$, destroyin all buldings and leaving the city and letting it rebel......


Hmmmm, perhaps i might be able to 'convince' the Holy Father to relocate his capital to....the levant? after i've taken italy whole, i've decided the best course of action would be to offer him settlements in the levant (taken from my lightning quick raids) whereby he may continue doing god's holy work agaisnt the Unbelievers....and the mongol hordes

ive always enjoyed HRE campaigns. maybe you can install the new Papacy at Constantinople for a dose of irony?

[Exarch]

ive always enjoyed HRE campaigns. maybe you can install the new Papacy at Constantinople for a dose of irony?

constantinople... i like that idea
they'll be the perfect turk/mongol buffer. strong papal guard with high moral agaisnt the onslaught of the mongols/timurids

[manofarms89]

constantinople... i like that idea
they'll be the perfect turk/mongol buffer. strong papal guard with high moral agaisnt the onslaught of the mongols/timurids

i like getting craetive with the PS. this one time i went on a massive assassination campaign. killing cardinal after cardinal and pope after pope, until all that was left was my cardinals.

[Owain Glyndŵr]

Maybe in the beginning you could secure good relations with Spain and "help" them with the Moors via a swift ship-based assault. The AI never expects you to pop up and steal their coastal cities like that... it's how I secured a sizeable chunk of the Middle East as Scotland during the Early period.

[Viking Prince]

@Exarch --

When you do the swap of territories -- what units get acquired/spawned in the newly acquired settlements? I asume merc and not militia. Does this also affect the play a bit. I ask this because when playing Venice, I bought Bolognia and ended up wth 5 merc crossbows inthe deal. Seems aa bit of a cheat. Your thoughts?

btw -- I may give this a try over the holidays to get a better feel of what the fuss is all about (do not consider this as a conversion -- just curiosity)

Regards.

[StalkAndStrike]

Very sound strategy as far as I am concerned, only problem is that if spain,england or milan descide to get frisky earlier you might not have the established armies to defend/control your territories effectivley? tell me what you think