Denmark and other vikings

[xzyx]

Since the project is of a "supermod" and such, may I ask you about how the vikings are going to be represented? So far, on the "general" mods, that cover entire europe, I liked the most the dark age denmark on SV, so I wanted to say some stuff I think could be implemented (up to you if you do it or not):

-Lots of viking-like infantry, with vikingars, norse swordsmen, mounted and dismounted huscarls, big axemen and bersekers.

-Shield viking infantry must ALL have shield wall ability. Historically, they pretty much fought most battles through shield walls.

-What about Harald Hardrada as their hero? He could show up (with or without an army... I would prefer without) after X battles happening in britain, or X territories taken from the saxons/british. On the program I've seen in Discovery Channel about Hastings, they mentioned he had a bodyguard of bersekers. It also mentioned one of his bersekers (not sure if his bodyguard) managed to hold Stamford Bridge ALONE against the saxon army for long enough for the rest of his army to prepare. So, if legend is true, they were spartans...

-Paganism! Please, make pagan vikings to wage war on christendom! eventually they could get the oportunity to convert themselves (like lithuania on Teutonic campaign)

-The other nobles should have infantry bodyguards, and so should saxon/british "dark age" generals. (dark age= in the beggining).

-Maybe possible to make throwing axe troops? Like the romans throwing pilums on RTW. Not sure if this is historically correct, but it would be still awesome.

-ohh yeah...their first cavalry should suck It was only used to pursue runing enemies and fighting archers I think...or something like that...

Anyway, if I'm terribly wrong, let me know, if I helped, please rep

[Hengest]

Hardrada dies about 15 years before our mod starts. We will probably have some very interesting Nordic faction stuff, contrary to belief their cavalry didnt suck and Huscarls were not just axemen... The Viking era had in reality passed by 1100, although there were lements of this in their culture- in many respects they were similar to other factions around them such as Russia and England.
The Nordic factions are a bit of a favourite of mine, I can post more info in the near future with permission from the other mod leaders- we'll see.
You will be impressed and a bit surprised I think.

Paganism- it was still strong amongst the people in the north, but officially all three countries were Christian by 1080, it was only Sweden that was undergoing a serious pagan backlash/rebellion at this time, and that was not to last long- Alas!

[xzyx]

So good to hear one of the mod leaders has the norse on their favorite

Too bad about Hadrada, I liked him...and about the pagans...but I suppose we won't be really missing them after all with all the good things on this mod.

I'm really glad to hear I'll be surprised and impressed...now you got some high expectations on Dominion of the Sword for me.

BTW, I knew they were not all axemen...since their army wasn't really completely disciplined and organized (compared to ahn... romans, or the more "civilized" european nations), it was pretty much to each man to choose his own weapon.


OhHHH...another suggestion: possible to make better peasants? I know they are useless, but it's almost infuriating to see 120 men with the exact same pitchfork. I mean, peasants would use any weapon they could find, some with blacksmith hammers, pitchforks, lumberjack axes, some had old swords and axes, some didn't have really much clothing, other wore clothing, some even had leather. Is it possible to implement or they must all have the same kind of weapon?

[Hengest]

There will be at least 3 pagan units available to Sweden, which will disappear if the region falls below a certain percentage in paganism

[ColmCeile]

Will these pagan units be as modern as other units you get for Catholic factions?

[Hengest]

No they will be a bit rustic, not exactly peasants but thye will represent warriors in the last corner of pagan europe, surrounded by Christendom. They won't have plate armour! They may be able to hold their own well into the high middle ages though.
Training and equipment was not neccessarily backward amongst Nordic pagan people, but as Christianity became organised and succeeded in controlling the state, the only pagans were those that had escaped persecution by fleeing their estates and hiding in the countryside and therefore they would have quickly (within a generation or so) found themselves unable to outfit themselves to high standards. They certainly would not have been able to afford keeping up with military innovations. It was only where the state remained pagan -Lithuania- where this was the case.
Incidentally, 'pagan' and 'heathen' are both words which mean land-dweller, or yokel- a kind of non-urban person.

[Galloglaich]

I love xzyx idea about those different weapons. Those same pitchforks really disturbs. Some may not have a weapon at all. Fighting with their bare fists or getting a rock from the ground and start pounding enemies with that.

[OdinX]

Changing the weapons shouldn't be a problem, however, I think there was a 2 weapon limit for each unit.

[Marcos182]

lol yeah dam those pitchforks!

[Galloglaich]

Changing the weapons shouldn't be a problem, however, I think there was a 2 weapon limit for each unit.

Rock would be nice. Add some brutality. Imagine when some norse peasant would hit some rebel in the face with a rock and then jump on him and pound him faceless!

Man can dream can he?

[Luke Evans]

is there a mod for medeival 2 with more vikings and stuff?

[The Noble Lord]

Introducing Paganism in the mod would be a nice touch, but it would start disappearing very fast under the relentless onslaught of Christianity.

[Basil 11]

Introducing Paganism in the mod would be a nice touch, but it would start disappearing very fast under the relentless onslaught of Christianity.

Actually, in real history paganism survived into the 17th century in many areas....
+ hopefully the slowed down conversion rates will prevent this...

[OdinX]

+ hopefully the slowed down conversion rates will prevent this...

From the looks of things yes, conversion rates will be VERY slow; it will take years for a religion to become dominant in an area.

[The Noble Lord]

Actually, in real history paganism survived into the 17th century in many areas....
+ hopefully the slowed down conversion rates will prevent this...

Possibly in some areas of Scandinavia paganism was able to survive until the 17th Century, but everywhere else Paganism was either on retreat or completely destroyed.

[Basil 11]

Possibly in some areas of Scandinavia paganism was able to survive until the 17th Century, but everywhere else Paganism was either on retreat or completely destroyed.

Actually, this was more across Eastern Europe...
Overall, I do think Paganism is definitely worth including in the mod.

[GaMMwl]

Actually, in real history paganism survived into the 17th century in many areas....
+ hopefully the slowed down conversion rates will prevent this...

Paganism isnt dead! Hail Odin(Wodin)

[OdinX]

Paganism is already set to be present in the mod.

[Philippon]

Hross: Training and equipment was not neccessarily backward amongst Nordic pagan people, but as Christianity became organised and succeeded in controlling the state, the only pagans were those that had escaped persecution by fleeing their estates and hiding in the countryside and therefore they would have quickly (within a generation or so) found themselves unable to outfit themselves to high standards.

Me:In my studies of the history of religion on Medieval Europe, I find very little evidence of a Christian persecution of Paganism in North. While the Christian Scandanavians were still wild and wooly like their grandfathers and fond of resolving things in their favorite manner, e.g. with an axe and mace, they were not, as far as I can tell, going for the pagans specifically. Now if you have some historical sources I'd be interested in seeing them.

The only real examples you have of direct persecution of paganism by a Christian state go back either to the Roman Empire or into the Renaissance where post Catholic territories became almost rabid in their fear of witchcraft from the 1500's through the end of the 1600's.

[Philippon]

Odin: From the looks of things yes, conversion rates will be VERY slow; it will take years for a religion to become dominant in an area.

Me: Which is a good thing. Conversions has always gone on too fast and failed to take into account basic resistance of some religious groups, such as Jews to conversion.