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Thread: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

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  1. #1
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Excellent news! I've been waiting with anticipation to this test exercise of the system for nearly a week now.



    Source
    The Missile Defense Agency announced today it has completed an important exercise and flight test involving a successful intercept by a ground-based interceptor missile designed to protect the United States against a limited long-range ballistic missile attack. The flight test results will help to further refine the performance of numerous Ballistic Missile Defense System (BMDS) elements able to provide a defense against the type of long-range ballistic missile that could be used to attack the nation with a weapon of mass destruction.

    For this exercise, a threat-representative target missile was launched from Kodiak, Alaska at 3:04pm (EST). This long-range ballistic target was tracked by several land- and sea-based radars, which sent targeting information to the interceptor missile. At 3:23pm (EST)the Ground-Based Interceptor was launched from the Ronald W. Reagan Missile Defense Site, located at Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif. The interceptor’s exoatmospheric kill vehicle was carried into the target’s predicted trajectory in space, maneuvered to the target, performed discrimination, and intercepted the threat warhead.

    This was the first time an operational crew located at the alternate fire control centre at Ft. Greely, Alaska remotely launched the interceptor from Vandenberg AFB. In previous interceptor launches from Vandenberg, military crews at the fire control centre at Schriever AFB, Colo. remotely launched the interceptor.

    The target was successfully tracked by a transportable AN/TPY-2 radar located in Juneau, Alaska, a U.S. Navy Aegis BMD ship with SPY-1 radar, the Upgraded Early Warning Radar at Beale Air Force Base, Calif., and the Sea-Based X-band radar. Each sensor sent information to the fire control system, which integrated the data together to provide the most accurate target trajectory for the interceptor.

    The interceptor’s exoatmospheric kill vehicle is the component that collides directly with a target warhead in space to perform a “hit to kill” intercept using only the force of the collision to totally destroy the target warhead.

    Initial indications are that all components performed as designed. Program officials will evaluate system performance based upon telemetry and other data obtained during the test.

    This was the 37th successful hit-to-kill intercept out of 47 attempts against missiles of all ranges since 2001. Operational Ground-Based Interceptors are currently deployed at Ft. Greely, Alaska, and Vandenberg AFB, protecting the nation, our friends, and allies against ballistic missile attack.
    This test was tremendously important for a number of reasons:

    First is that the incoming missile was carrying active countermeasure decoys, which of course didn't work (just as I explained in that long ABM thread a few months back).

    The US-based GBI tested was the 3-stage interceptor version, while the European-based GBI will be a simpler 2-stage version (basically just the upper 2 stages of the GBI tested).

    -On the geo-political side of things its also a strong signal of confirmation to both the Polish and Czech governments that their investment in the ABM is going to pay off large dividends.

    -More importantly, its also a good precedent for the incoming Obama Administration to continue funding for the program. As i've said, for those thinking (or hoping) that the ABM Shield would inevitably be on the chopping block now that Bush is heading out, think again. Obama has repeatedly said he would only support "proven" missile defense technology for the US and Europe:

    "The biggest threat to the United States is a terrorist getting their hands on nuclear weapons," Obama said in the September 26 presidential debate. "And we ... are spending billions of dollars on missile defense. And I actually believe that we need missile defense, because of Iran and North Korea and the potential for them to obtain or to launch nuclear weapons."
    Link with a more extensive report on the details and follow up of the test
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    By Fred W. Baker III
    American Forces Press Service

    WASHINGTON, Dec. 5, 2008 – The military today shot down a mock enemy missile, employing a synchronized network of sensors in what officials called the largest and most complex test of the missile defense system to date.

    A mock target missile was fired from Kodiak, Alaska, at 3:04 p.m. Eastern Time. An interceptor missile was fired about 30 minutes later from a silo at Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif., with its launch directed by soldiers based at Fort Greely, Alaska. The two successfully collided off the coast of California minutes later.

    This is the first time the Defense Missile Agency has synchronized its network of varied sensor types and frequencies to successfully track, report and intercept a single target, the agency’s top officer said.

    If the multiple radars did not work together, each would have reported a different target to the system.

    “Overall, I’m extremely pleased, because … the core of our missile defense system is the fact that we can operate in layers and have multiple systems working together,” Army Lt. Gen. Patrick J. O'Reilly said. “The key to our protection and the effectiveness of the systems is to have all of these different sensors simultaneously tracking, and the system [knowing] exactly that it’s not multiple objects, it’s one object up there.”

    The test combined an early warning radar system south of Sacramento, Calif., a mobile radar system temporarily posted in Juneau, Alaska, two AEGIS ballistic missile defense ships off the Pacific coast and a sea-based radar system.

    The test also marked the first time soldiers from the 49th Missile Defense Battalion based at Fort Greely were in control of the launch. On previous tests, a Colorado Springs-based unit was used.

    Each of the systems was networked together, despite their varied sizes and frequencies, to form an accurate, single-target track, O’Reilly said.

    Soldiers, airmen and sailors operated all parts of the system, and the USS Benfold, a Navy guided-missile destroyer equipped with the AEGIS air-defense system, went through all of the motions of a simulated intercept successfully, O’Reilly said.

    “What we showed today is all those sensors working together,” he said. “At any one time, the system knew which sensor was reporting … and tracking it and it gave the warfighter a presentation of the target. It is the first time we have ever done that in an actual test and with our soldiers [and sailors and airmen] operating it.”

    Officials had hoped to deploy countermeasures during the flight that would test the system’s reaction to multiple objects. Countermeasures could include the missile deploying chaff, decoys or replicas. The countermeasures did not deploy, however.

    “Countermeasures are very difficult to deploy,” O’Reilly said. “We have had trouble deploying them in the past.”

    Even though countermeasures didn’t deploy, the upper stage of the mock enemy missile was still in the area. The interceptor saw two objects and had to understand the data sent from the sensors to discern which object to hit, O’Reilly said.

    Pentagon officials said this test was “very realistic” and followed a trajectory and mimicked a launch similar to one the U.S. military believes could be a threat.

    This test cost $120 million to $150 million. Thirteen similar tests have been conducted since 1999, seven successfully hitting their targets. The last previous test, in September 2007, was successful.

    The ground-based midcourse defense program is designed to defend the United States against intermediate- and long-range ballistic missile attacks in the midcourse phase of flight, or while they are arching in the “exoatmosphere” -- the region of space just outside the Earth's atmosphere.

    The 54-foot-6-inch interceptors look like missiles, but no explosive warheads are attached. The main body acts as a booster vehicle to propel into space the embedded kill vehicle, a 152-pound “smart bullet” that basically steers itself into the path of the oncoming warhead, causing an explosion on impact.

    The U.S. military has 24 ground-interceptors in silos in Alaska and California, and 21 sea-based interceptors.

    The Defense Department has spent about $100 billion on missile defense since 1999, officials said. Iran’s pursuit of ballistic missiles and the recent nuclear and long-range missile tests by North Korea create an evolving threat to the United States, according to military reports.

    In the last 20 years, the number of countries interested in having or actually having intercontinental ballistic missile capability has increased from six to more than 20, military officials said. The number of test launches has increased every year.


    Considering that the installations at Fort Greely and Vandenberg are already fully operational and paid for, they're not that much of a monetary drag for Obama to really have a reason to shut them down. The same can also be said of the network infrastructure in Europe that's already in place so that GBIs can be deployed there as well.

    Also, i'm going to point out some rather interesting achievements of this flight test that might have slipped by some people who might not be knowledgeable about ballistics:


    Multiple Sensors Fed the Fire Control:
    The target was successfully tracked by a transportable AN/TPY-2 radar located in Juneau, Alaska, a U.S. Navy Aegis BMD ship with SPY-1 radar, the Upgraded Early Warning Radar at Beale Air Force Base, Calif., and the Sea-Based X-band radar. Each sensor sent information to the fire control system, which integrated the data together to provide the most accurate target trajectory for the interceptor.
    So....that's:
    - A trucked mobile phased array radar in Juneau (the same one that's going to be used in concert with THAAD, and the same one the US recently deployed to Israel)
    - An AEGIS BMD Radar from an ocean going warship, just like the one that shot down the toxic spy satellite a few months back.
    - A massive SBX Sea-Based X-Band radar, 21 of which are operational.
    - And a huge permanent PAVE PAW Early Warning radar from the 1980s in California, upgraded to modern specs (they're remnants of the Star Wars program, and far older than the planned Czech radar) --- All networked and working together to feed the fire control. Just as the ABM Shield C4I system is designed to do.

    Expanding on the fire control bit.....
    It was remotely controlled from the OTHER Missile Defense Base, thousands of miles away:
    This was the first time an operational crew located at the alternate fire control centre at Ft. Greely, Alaska remotely launched the interceptor from Vandenberg AFB.
    I cannot stress this point enough when it comes to how fast the ABM Shield would be in terms of its reaction time upon a launch detection. It essentially means that any future Polish interceptor base can be networked into the ABM global fire control process in the same way.

    So yesterday, the entire Western Seaboard of North America was a massive test range.

    Naval units, an Army tactical radar, and a huge Air Force radar all supplying targeting data to two interceptor batteries thousands of miles apart with one of those batteries remotely commanding the other as an interceptor takes out the incoming ICBM. In space.

    Unreliable my ass.

    It'll be funny as hell to watch what argument the skeptics try and throw at this.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelius View Post
    Unreliable my ass.

    It'll be funny as hell to watch what argument the skeptics try and throw at this.
    yawn....dick waving aside, maybe it's time to throw some of those money at the problematic American economy...
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  3. #3
    Sidmen's Avatar Mangod of Earth
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    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    yawn....dick waving aside, maybe it's time to throw some of those money at the problematic American economy...
    You mean like 750 Billion dollars?

    Done that.

    This program didn't cost nearly as much as the Bank Bailout does.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidmen View Post
    You mean like 750 Billion dollars?

    Done that.

    This program didn't cost nearly as much as the Bank Bailout does.
    and thus it's ok to spend on crazy sci-fi military programs when your economy is tanking badly. Good point.
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    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    and thus it's ok to spend on crazy sci-fi military programs when your economy is tanking badly. Good point.
    A viable missile shield would be an enormus defensive boon. The first country to develop one would have an undeniable military and political advantage.

    Also the war in iraq has cost us so far ~577.5 billion (source: http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home)
    Blut und Boden

  6. #6

    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by Aetius View Post
    A viable missile shield would be an enormus defensive boon. The first country to develop one would have an undeniable military and political advantage.
    no country with a fading economy can support an "undeniable military and political advantage". Seriously, this program is unbelievably short-sighted consider how urgent other areas of American need money.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by Aetius View Post
    A viable missile shield would be an enormus defensive boon. The first country to develop one would have an undeniable military and political advantage.
    Even if it would work 100% in all situations, its obsolete the minute this is achieved. Any nation wanting to attack the US would just use other means. Like just shipping it.

    If you look at it rationaly this whole plan is just quit stupid . it doesnt defend against large scale attacks and most of the other nuclear nations dont have the reach or the means to mount sunch an attack.

    So whats left? Accidental launch of a missile?

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    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    and thus it's ok to spend on crazy sci-fi military programs when your economy is tanking badly. Good point.
    Read what a single nuke could do.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidmen View Post
    You mean like 750 Billion dollars?

    Done that.

    This program didn't cost nearly as much as the Bank Bailout does.

    Correction, the bailout is now $8.4 trillion

    Whats the point, We probably wont even be able to afford the fuel that runs these soon

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Well, it's progress one way or another. Still leaves a lot to be desired, but they had to start somewhere. Hopefully sometime in the near future there will be a missile shield which can actually do something rather than sound fearsome.

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    yawn....dick waving aside, maybe it's time to throw some of those money at the problematic American economy...
    You mean like the pointless bailout which doesn't even do anything except slightly delay the deterioration of the banks it was aimed at? Why would anyone want to throw any more money into that black hole? You're not going to stop the recession by leeching more money off of taxpayers.
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


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  11. #11

    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgeon View Post

    You mean like the pointless bailout which doesn't even do anything except slightly delay the deterioration of the banks it was aimed at? Why would anyone want to throw any more money into that black hole? You're not going to stop the recession by leeching more money off of taxpayers.
    Still beat building fancy military toys...

    (but ya, i'd prefer investing in education more than a direct bailout, but interest groups are too powerful).

    something wrong with this thread, my new post keeps popping up here..
    Last edited by Valus; December 11, 2008 at 01:34 AM. Reason: double post
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    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    Still beat building fancy military toys...

    (but ya, i'd prefer investing in education more than a direct bailout, but interest groups are too powerful).
    Investing in education, yeah, that's a good financial black hole to throw our money into.

    Successful missile defense is big.
    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. - James Madison

  13. #13

    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by Justice and Mercy View Post
    Investing in education, yeah, that's a good financial black hole to throw our money into.

    Successful missile defense is big.
    ya, education is an useless blackhole..., i guess a nation full of future uneducated hicks can certainly continue to dominate the world...

    are you me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    Who do you think makes missiles?

    Jimbo's Missile's and Missile Accessories?

    Nope, companies like Boeing (employs 163,851), Lockheed Martin (employs 140,000), Raytheon (employs 72,000), Norththrop Grumman (employs 122,600) and Orbital Sciences Corporation (employs only 2,600) were the ones who did the work on this.
    versus using the money to benefit an even larger number of people in this country (the millions of high school and college students) by investing in the extremely problematic education system. Do u think it's all fun and jokes when test result show America's future generation lagging behind other countries?

    not to mention the opportunity cost of investing these into fancy military toys versus civilian technology that can be sold or used to increase productivity. Are you seriously telling me one day US is going to sell the secret of missile defense to buyers like the Chinese?
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    Still beat building fancy military toys...

    (but ya, i'd prefer investing in education more than a direct bailout, but interest groups are too powerful).
    A completely (like, completely) pointless waste of money beats military research? I dunno, I'd rather take the latter option...

    Edit: Help the thread has mind of its own! My posts are jumping all over the place.
    Last edited by Surgeon; December 07, 2008 at 05:02 PM. Reason: halp
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


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  15. #15

    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Yeah! I feel safer now. Do these things knock out nukes? ^_^


  16. #16

    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Was there another test? The one I've been reading about says that the missile, while destroyed, failed to deploy decoys. That might not be a big deal in the end, but for now, it makes your thread title partially incorrect.
    Last edited by Whatacad; December 07, 2008 at 03:45 AM.

  17. #17
    Sidmen's Avatar Mangod of Earth
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    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    no country with a fading economy can support an "undeniable military and political advantage". Seriously, this program is unbelievably short-sighted consider how urgent other areas of American need money.
    We can, do, and have for decades. Canceling these programs would be the short-sighted move, a failed attempt to move funds from defense research to economic support would just gum up the works. Hi-tech programs should be the last to go. Especially when these things can be sold at a profit to other countries in the future. Don't delude yourself into thinking that this relative peace we've been in will last forever, eventually there will be big tensions and if you're the only one with a way to prevent nukes from killing people, you're going to make a killing by selling them.
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  18. #18
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Managed to find a great video of the test exercise that was released:


    Some notes:

    -Boost stage release for the GBI at 2:10
    -Guidance verification angle on the launchpad at 2:33 from 25,000 ft.
    -Interception at 3:11
    -The yellow target box was the upper-stage of the ICBM, with the red box obviously being the mock warhead.

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush
    yawn....dick waving aside, maybe it's time to throw some of those money at the problematic American economy...
    What, you can't make a more witty retort?

    You have to revert to a Strawman instead?

    Quote Originally Posted by touchmaster
    Yeah! I feel safer now. Do these things knock out nukes?
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whatacad
    Was there another test? The one I've been reading about says that the missile, while destroyed, failed to deploy decoys. That might not be a big deal in the end, but for now, it makes your thread title partially incorrect.
    Yeah, seems like I made that in haste.

    That said, the ABM people have been quick to point out that the EKV still had to differentiate b/w the mock warhead and the upper stage of the ICBM during the test. Which in most ICBM designs is intended to act as a semi-decoy in addition to the dedicated decoys themselves.

    Even if the decoys on the target missile failed to deploy, that attribute can't be blamed on the ABM Shield itself for something that it has no connection to or control over, and really has absolutely nothing to do with the system's performance during the exercise.

    So while the system didn't get to discriminate between an actual decoy and a warhead, it still had to pick the right object to kill --- 124 miles above the Pacific, in space, at over 15,000 miles per hour.

    That's worthy of respect in my book.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelius View Post
    What, you can't make a more witty retort?

    You have to revert to a Strawman instead?
    ya...i guess the news of job losses from november hasn't reached you yet. But ya...it's pretty stupid to spend billions on fancy useless when the foundation of your country is shaken in a recession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    Do you think Defense spending money just disappears?

    Nope, like all government spending it helps the economy by pumping money into it.
    LMAO, you mean spending money on this crap is the same as spending on education, or, heck, just bailing out key industries like auto makers? (or even pay off some debt).

    this piece of crap benefits whom? the few people in the scientific-military establishment. This is no better than former Soviet Union spending billions on arm race rather than using the precious cash to improve its infrastructure to make sure their people stay competitive for years to come.
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

  20. #20
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Landmark test of US ABM Shield; Interceptor sees through decoys, hits target in space

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    LMAO, you mean spending money on this crap is the same as spending on education, or, heck, just bailing out key industries like auto makers? (or even pay off some debt).

    this piece of crap benefits whom? the few people in the scientific-military establishment. This is no better than former Soviet Union spending billions on arm race rather than using the precious cash to improve its infrastructure to make sure their people stay competitive for years to come.
    Who do you think makes missiles?

    Jimbo's Missile's and Missile Accessories?

    Nope, companies like Boeing (employs 163,851), Lockheed Martin (employs 140,000), Raytheon (employs 72,000), Norththrop Grumman (employs 122,600) and Orbital Sciences Corporation (employs only 2,600) were the ones who did the work on this. Add General Dyanamics who produce tanks (employs 83,000) and the multitude of other corporations that keep thousands of Americans employed.
    Last edited by Farnan; December 07, 2008 at 05:27 PM.
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