Medieval Navies

[Exarch]

hey guys
am looking for information regarding medieval navies the world over, whether it be the byzantine fireships or what the crusaders sailed on to get to the levant.
what ships would the naval powers like venice and genoa have used?
were they still galleys modelled after rome?
and how did one becomea galley slave?
etc etc
pics and links highly welcome

also, officer class. who commanded the navies, were they related to the royal families? were they nobles etc etc
and boarding actions, how often did knights on these ships fight in full armour? can i get some egs
pics and links highly welcome!!!

[Nikos]

The East Roman Navy was the most feared Navy of its time. This was due to the use of Greek fire. East Roman ships (Dromons) looked like this.

As you can clearly see, a continuation of the Roman and Greek Galley ships.

[IronBlood]

Well if you're interested in pursuing the subject farther here is a good book on the matter

http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Naval.../dp/041523977X

and its review http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._/ai_111852950

Some pictures

Ottomans vs Venetians (Ottomans on left, Ventians to the right)



A Venetian gallery



To get a better idea of how navies formed up for a battle. Here is the battle of Lepanto

[Exarch]

awesome thanks guys

@ironblood
they soooo need to make a fiolm about the battle fo lepanto

MOAR!!!!

so not much changed in terms of shipbuilding between roman empire and medieval ships eh?

[pchalk]

cool i wondered always how this stuff worked. i was wondering too how did the northern european navies work cuz from what ive read (keep in mind ive only read a little) about it, cogs and holks were mostly used in trade and not so much warfare (correct me if im wrong). so what type of ships did they use?

[Romano-Dacis]

There were also smaller ships, called monoxiles (meaning "from a single tree") which were used in the Kievan Rus and around the Danube.

[Exarch]

so when did the whole viking longship go out of existence?

[Barbarian Nobility]

You should check up on medieval China's navy which IMHO would have spanked the crap outta anything europe had to offer at the time. Check out Zheng He's flag ship the rudder on this beast was meant to be bigger than christopher columbus's entire ship!

[cfmonkey45]

You should check up on medieval China's navy which IMHO would have spanked the crap outta anything europe had to offer at the time. Check out Zheng He's flag ship the rudder on this beast was meant to be bigger than christopher columbus's entire ship!

I saw a program on the history channel about those megaships built by the Chinese. They said that they were only built for show, and in the open seas, they would most likely have broken apart due to stress and wear.

[Barbarian Nobility]

I saw a program on the history channel about those megaships built by the Chinese. They said that they were only built for show, and in the open seas, they would most likely have broken apart due to stress and wear.

Except that it is alleged Zheng He circumnavigated the world in them in 1421, at the very least it has been substantiated that his fleet was attacked by Ceylon and his flagship reached the horn of africa.

[Ishoss]

Except that it is alleged Zheng He circumnavigated the world in them in 1421, at the very least it has been substantiated that his fleet was attacked by Ceylon and his flagship reached the horn of africa.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Show us someone with proof. And don't call "1421: the year the Chinese discovered the world" proof.

They may have gone to Africa, am not disputing that, but circumnavigating the world? Nope. Europe would surely have records of such things.

Well, I have a question actually. (Not related to Zheng He) How would a fire-ship fare in open sea combat? I can see their use in the straits of Bosphorous, but in the open Mediterranean I doubt their use.

[Exarch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Show us someone with proof. And don't call "1421: the year the Chinese discovered the world" proof.

They may have gone to Africa, am not disputing that, but circumnavigating the world? Nope. Europe would surely have records of such things.

indeed they would have sailed to africa rather than 'cracking under the strain on the high seas' as the purported program claimed.

Well, I have a question actually. (Not related to Zheng He) How would a fire-ship fare in open sea combat? I can see their use in the straits of Bosphorous, but in the open Mediterranean I doubt their use.

do u mean the ones the byzantiens used or the chinese?
byzantines used something like a spigot/siphon that was like a crude flamethrower, with the chinese, i'll hve to get abck to u on that

btw did these ships still have scorpions or catapaults on them?
if so, which ships in particular of which faction?

[Barbarian Nobility]

Well i don't regard Gavin Menzies as a real Historian, but there is not doubt Zheng He's ships reached the horn of Africa, which flies in the face of speculation his ships were 'all for show and would break up in the open ocean'.

In answer to your question i think any projectile that spurts flaming liquid is valuable against a wooden ship

[Erwin Rommel]

Enjoy.



In the end, I'll side with the european ships, coz eventually, they'll have cannons while the chinese still use junks.



But hey, that was the 19th Century

[Demetrios of Messene]

Just a small note on the size of vessels. Just because medieval europeans prefered smaller vessels, it does not mean that they could not build larger ones.

Unfortunately I do not have the time right now to do some proper search and provide details. After some quick googling I found this interesting site regarding some huge vessels built during european antiquity (with which I am more familiar), which I think is interesting even though probably off-topic.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea...2/i3/ships.asp

I'll revert when I have some more info on medieval ships.

[Exarch]

Just a small note on the size of vessels. Just because medieval europeans prefered smaller vessels, it does not mean that they could not build larger ones.

Unfortunately I do not have the time right now to do some proper search and provide details. After some quick googling I found this interesting site regarding some huge vessels built during european antiquity (with which I am more familiar), which I think is interesting even though probably off-topic.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea...2/i3/ships.asp

I'll revert when I have some more info on medieval ships.

hello demetrios
welcome to the site
i must object with ur choice of source tho. answersingenesis.org doesnt go down well with the scholastic establishment

@topic
so with galley slaves, slavery was still pretty much a booming trade in the middle ages eh?

[Nikos]

@topic
so with galley slaves, slavery was still pretty much a booming trade in the middle ages eh?

Well Byzantine ships were crewed by professional soldiers most of the time, but yes slavery was still around.

[Exarch]

Well Byzantine ships were crewed by professional soldiers most of the time, but yes slavery was still around.

was the byzantine navy still the same as the roman navy from the ancient era?
meaning officer class, etc etc

[Manco]

so with galley slaves, slavery was still pretty much a booming trade in the middle ages eh?

In Western Europe it wasn't really slavery, as a Christian couldn't own a Christian slave. But the practice of shanghaiing people was very much alive.
A captain would send some men to bars in town, get everyone drunk and have them sign a contract. Suddenly a few days later, you'd be forced on board of a ship departing on a voyage lasting two years.

[Exarch]

interesting
and what of use of catapaults on ships? did they also lob greek fire?
do we have any good accounts of how the byzantines beat back the varangain and arab raiders in the 10th centuries?

@maraud
wow, so not much changed up to the 19th century
plus werent most ppl illiterate?
i suppose they jsut scratched their x on the parchment