Best way of defeating the Carthaginians?

[Alesia52BC]

Having a lot of trouble defeating them. 2 out of 3 times I will lose if 1 Legion of mine fights one of theirs. I have tried various formations and tactics but still having trouble. Do you guys' fight them one on one or two on one or does it vary? Appreciate any help...

[franks_tank]

First of all it's better to let them attack you, so get close to them and most of the times they will attack you the next turn...look for a nice little hill or another good position to fight...one legion should be enough to defeat them...put your velites behind your first 2 lines if they bring elephants...they are your only hope against them...I use hastatii and principes in standard formation in defensive mode...it looks something like this:

--H-H-H-H-H--
T-P-P-P-P-P-T
--S---T---S--
----V-G-V----


Their cav is not very strong but can also wreak havoc if you don't take care of them...they like to flank...if elephants are in the army use your velites and general on them but make sure they don't get attacked...if possible you can try to let your infantry throw pila at them too...

For the infantry: After throwing pila at them (activating fire at will) I just let them fight my hastatii...after they get tired I take the wing that is in the better position and attack their flank or if there are more units idle even from behind...when their cavalry is dead or routed it's also a good idea to let your cavalry charge in the back of the units a few times, especially those already despairing...if they have good archers let at least one unit attack them

It's nothing special actually...when their army is not that good you can get out with less than 200 casualties...they seem to have lots of town militia even in field armies and those are pretty good targets...they often flee before the battle even started giving you some free space

[Alesia52BC]

I have use the same formation, ground advantage and the tactics you have suggested. Yet my troops usually get overwhelmed(they usually have atleast a 1000 man advantage). I even saved a battle so I could play it over and over again.

[franks_tank]

Even when outnumbered it shouldn't be too hard...it's possible that you're facing a hardcore army with elite troops but I only saw this once or twice...what exactly is the problem?...do you get crunched or does your army get routed too early?

Use the clickable standard formation only as some kind of blueprint...modify the formation according to your enemy...it can't work when the enemy attacks with a line two times as wide as yours...you would be surrounded in no time

I don't know if you're that new to SPQR but one thing that always applies in every battle is patience...sometimes there's nothing to do and you can only wait what the enemy will do or not do...even if your lines are pushed back into the next it's no time to panic...you have to take your time and flank at the right moment

[Alesia52BC]

pretty expericed with playing just have hard time with them(Carthago). here is the scenario i saved... they attack with about 4100 men...3 groups of elephants, two groups of cav, and mixed jav and archer and and light and heavy infantry. they attack with javs and arrows....then rush both flanks and the center with elephants until one part routs then rush the whole line with infantry.

p.s. clickable formation?

[franks_tank]

Yeah I thought you were all new to this and don't modify formations and just use the formations you can click in the lower right corner when forming a group but that's not the case

I beat an army with 4 elephant units in the exact way in a battle for sicilia but none of them charged the center...if they did I would have thrown all pila from my infantry on them...I sacrificed my equites to keep the elephants on the flanks away from the main lines and used one velites for each side to take them down...never thought I could win this battle with a single legion but it worked...half the legion was dead but the win was crucial

Back then the units of carthago were quite inexperienced...it probably won't work with let's say silver chevron infantry...maybe someone else has another idea what to do...sorry I couldn't help

[Hesus de bodemloze]

pull back your armie and replace the slingers with some extra velites. put the line of hastati in guard mode. it is all explained by franks_tank actualy. kill the elephants asap, protect your flanks with triari against there cav units. send your principe in to help the first line. use both of your cav units at the same flank to flank carthaginian iberian infaterie (these type of troops always assault your flanks) and work your way the the other flank you will see the armie rout.

[S u l l a]

pull back your armie and replace the slingers with some extra velites. put the line of hastati in guard mode. it is all explained by franks_tank actualy. kill the elephants asap, protect your flanks with triari against there cav units. send your principe in to help the first line. use both of your cav units at the same flank to flank carthaginian iberian infaterie (these type of troops always assault your flanks) and work your way the the other flank you will see the armie rout.

I do similar as Hesus. My formation slightly different than the one above:

---H-H-H-H-H---
----P--P--P----
-P--V--V--V--P-
-T-----G-----T-
-------T-------
-------C-------

The two first lines with 5 Hastati and 3 Princepes on Guard mode. When Enemy has engaged all these units and across my full front line I "unclick" Guard mode.

Velites on Guard mode WITHOUT "fire at will" - Manually target key units like elephants withyour velites.

The 2 Princepes on the flanks and the Triarii flank immediately as my font line is fully engaged.

Cavalry (always light cavalry or missile) encricling the front line and keeping enemy archers busy. Triarii behind General left as reserve (against enemy cavalry or a weak spot on my front line.

General on the move behind units that buckle if necessary.

Check out the tactics thread (all of it). There are some good stuff in there.

To Valerius/Hesus - why not merge this thread with tactics thread?

Sulla

[cnaeus]

when i battle with carthaginians they just randomly(they wont attack in a disciplined line) attack some spots of the line and push themselfs into my hastati and get surrounded by a mix of hastati and principes but their units(lybian spearmen and poeni infantry) will rout only if their are no more then 40 soldiers left in them. so im wondering how you can get them routing by only killing their iberians?

cnaeus,

[Hesus de bodemloze]

rout only when there are 40 soldiers left in there unit? thats not true. i had units of 140 soldiers rout (lybian and phoeni) so it is possible.

[franks_tank]

When they have no experience at all it's likely that it will end in a mass rout...even if not, seeing your mates flee is not something you want to see on the battlefield...that's why I try to break the weakest units first

When they randomly attack the line, good...I would let them push the lines in one another, break the hastati formations on their sides and crunch them...as long as your principes are still standing in line it's not too dangerous...I only saw this kind of behaviour in gaul and it never ever worked for them...guess that's the AI's way of teasing you to make a move...I prefer to just stand there and wait...as long as you don't give up your basic battle formation it doesn't matter if the hastatii are pushed into the princeps...it doesn't look good on the screen when the line seems to become thinner and thinner but in most cases your units still have everything under control...the enemy gets discouraged because they are getting tired and see that it just doesnt work...that's the time to react

Luckily carthage doesn't have the best cavalry...at least the triarii unit in the center should still be free to react even on the flanks if necessary...never hesitate to throw them in when they charge...they are pretty good "allrounders" and also useful against infantry

If there are elephants you know how to deal with them...bringing more velites instead of slingers as hesus said really helps but I always forget that...it's possible with 2 but as mentioned above this would probably mean to send 1 or 2 units to certain death

I have no idea in what other way I could fight them but I would also like to hear other approaches...all this is not really creative

[BunnyPoopCereal]

Franks_Tank's strategy for the formations and the flanking is the way to go.

Key strategies

Fire - is especially good against elephants also a Roman General unit is really good for some reason despite the low men count

Patience - is the key to success in SPQR. Keeping a close formation is a very good strategy when used against unexperienced armies and Gauls, "They will come if you let them"

Flanking - This might sound crazy, but I have played MTW2 online alot before the server pooped(thank you game spy) and the best players tended to pull hardcore infantry right from the middle of the fight and they would move them around behind your lines on every possible opportunity, hoping that enemy would retreat, thats proly how Jesus makes the 140men unit retreat

P.S. wait awhile before flanking because in SPQR the AI will always flank you first except when defending.

[cnaeus]

hmm well then i guess im confussing my battles between normal carthaginian armies and those of hannibal(which do rout very bad)

cnaeus,

[Hesus de bodemloze]

hmm well then i guess im confussing my battles between normal carthaginian armies and those of hannibal(which do rout very bad)

cnaeus,

your right on hannibals armie thy there rout is delayed becous of there experience (thy have 2 or 3 silver chevrons) the more experience a unit has the longer it takes for them to rout.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

becous the same tactics are already posted in the tactics thread. so it will only be double posting them.

[franks_tank]

I really don't get what you're doing wrong Alesia...I finally entered iberia...1 and a half legion against 2 armies from carthago...result: 5% dead on my side 60% on the other...the second army retreated before they even met the frontline and my reinforcement army arrived when all were fleeing...I really expected a harder battler but even those silver chevrons didn't help them...do you play on different difficulty settings than M/M?

One question about Tarraco: Is this province governable at all?...public order is at 0 and even with daily games it will probably revolt the next turn...I killed off the population but that didn't help much...I never owned Tarraco before but I didn't expect something like that

[S u l l a]

I really don't get what you're doing wrong Alesia...I finally entered iberia...1 and a half legion against 2 armies from carthago...result: 5% dead on my side 60% on the other...the second army retreated before they even met the frontline and my reinforcement army arrived when all were fleeing...I really expected a harder battler but even those silver chevrons didn't help them...do you play on different difficulty settings than M/M?

One question about Tarraco: Is this province governable at all?...public order is at 0 and even with daily games it will probably revolt the next turn...I killed off the population but that didn't help much...I never owned Tarraco before but I didn't expect something like that

Put the right gvernor there with highest possible influence (faction leader or heir normally does the trick) plus a full stack of town guards / peasants. Make sure you empty the population from the start.

Sulla

[franks_tank]

I did...the winning general and his legion are still inside because carthago sieged the city...what am I supposed to do?...at the end of turn the arena will be finished but I'm afraid I will get kicked out at the same moment

Even the cities in the northern gaul were not that bad...I hate to send my faction leader/heir cause gaul has stacks of assasins...they try every turn to kill my family members and the area is not safe at all...I just landed and have not yet attacked any carthage city...the area is full of gauls trying to get to valencia as it seems...I never expected so many armies from 2 enemies to fight...gaul from the north, carthago from the south...I've sent a 4th legion to support the others but if Tarraco is such a pain in the a** what about the other cities?

[lt1956]

Try deleting all buildings you can that were made by carthage. that should help. Also management icons are the little White paper icons not the green.

[franks_tank]

Try deleting all buildings you can that were made by carthage. that should help. Also management icons are the little White paper icons not the green.

Err...I know...what does that have to do with it?

I always tear foreign buildings down when i capture a city...I let the legion stay until the first temples are built+all other buildings to raise PO (arena, first 2 lvls of roads)...they stay there until the first baracks are built or another settlement can send guards instead which is impossible in this case

Is sending the faction leader/heir (+the one family member as skilled) the only way to get this under control?