The legitimacy of Hezbollah

[Sven788]

I see them as stupid terrorists, some see them as 'heroes' of the 'mighty' 'revolution'.
Ghaz said that I should make a thread, so here it is.
How do you see Hezbollah and explain why? We can have a healthy discussion.

[Thorn777]

They are stupid heroic terrorists of the mighty revolution, to sum it all up.

[Каие]

Personally I detest their coward tactics of hitting Israeli civilian cities and towns, they shouldn't have brought themselves down to the same level as the IAF. Also if the alleged accusations of Hezbollah doing suicide bombings are true, they must also be condemned for them.

However Hezbollah is a perfect example of the saying "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". Simply because to the Israelis and Israel's allies they are terrorists, but to the Lebanese civilians who were defended by Hezbollah from Israel they are not terrorists. To those who were disgusted by Israel's occupation of Lebanon, they were in fact freedom fighters fighting a war. To those who rely upon social welfare, Hezbollah is ten times better than the government in their social welfare programs building hospitals and roads when the government refuses to.

However as history has shown us organisations which were once terrorist organisations can change. An example would be Irgun. Irgun is a Zionist Jewish terrorist organisations responsible for hundreds of deaths and terror bombings. They were considered by the British to be terrorists and anarchist scum. But after their victory and the establishment of Israel, they became a political party which is now know today as Likud. Likud is set to win the February election in Israel being ahead in the polls currently.

The same with Hezbollah they started out as an Islamist terrorist/revolutionary group which aimed to get rid of Israel from Lebanon, and they have almost succeeded. There is only some land left, the Sheba farms. The Sheba farms were the place where they attacked the IDF patrol which sparked the War in summer 2006.

However now Hezbollah has turned it's hand to politics. Secular politics. Politics in Lebanon has always been done by militias, every party and group has their militias. That's just how it is. Ever since the civil war and the Christian genocidal militias who were responsible for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians amongst other things and supported by Israel, every group has it's militia.

[Treize]

Hezbollah is not legitimate as they are not like Hamas, which could be ligitimate regarding the situation, but Hezbollah is from Libanon, Isreal never did anything to them.
But its not about Israel its about Hezbollah's conquest of Libanon.
They seem to be on the winning hand.
And while Libanon's current goverment is quite secular, Hezbollah is certainly not.

[Каие]

Hezbollah is not legitimate as they are not like Hamas, which could be ligitimate regarding the situation, but Hezbollah is from Libanon, Isreal never did anything to them

So so wrong, my friend. Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon in 1982. Hezbollah was founded in 1982 with the sole aim to remove Israel from their soil. In 2000 Israel withdrew from all areas of Lebanon except the Sheba farms. The Sheba farms is what Hezbollah attacked to spark off the 2006 war between them.

[Treize]

Oh sorry your totally right

But thats like 26 years ago and starking a war just because a few square km's of land is more like jihad agains jews.
But there biggest "crime" is what they do in Lebanon itself.

[Henry of Grosmont]

What, again?
And kb, ask the Lebanese people here, what they thin kabout Hezbollah (hint:Roman Wolf)
Cheers

[Каие]

Oh sorry your totally right

No problem.

But thats like 26 years ago and starking a war just because a few square km's of land

Welcome to the human race, I guess. We are imperfect.

But there biggest "crime" is what they do in Lebanon itself.

What the largest Social Welfare programs in the region?


------

What, again? And kb, ask the Lebanese people here, what they thin kabout Hezbollah (hint:Roman Wolf)Cheers

Why stop at the ONE Lebanese person here [who has admitted support for a rival faction]?

How about we consult the Lebanese PEOPLE themselves?

Lets take a look.

The stakes are high for Hizbullah, but it seems it can count on an unprecedented swell of public support that cuts across sectarian lines.According to a poll released by the Beirut Center for Research and Information, 87 percent of Lebanese support Hizbullah's fight with Israel, a rise of 29 percent on a similar poll conducted in February. More striking, however, is the level of support for Hizbullah's resistance from non-Shiite communities. Eighty percent of Christians polled supported Hizbullah along with 80 percent of Druze and 89 percent of Sunnis.

• 87% of Lebanese support Hezbollah against Israel.
• Rise from 59% from a few months previously.
• 80% of Christians support them against Israel.
• 80% of Druze support them against Israel.
• 89% of Sunnis support them against Israel.

[Roman_Wolf]

No problem.
Why stop at the ONE Lebanese person here [who has admitted support for a rival faction]?

hoold it! I never said anything about me supporting israel. All I ever said was that Hizbollah are fake and are not the freedom fighters they pretend to be. and the recent mini "civil war/clashes" proves the whole thing.

No problem.
How about we consult the Lebanese PEOPLE themselves?

Lets take a look.

• 87% of Lebanese support Hezbollah against Israel.
• Rise from 59% from a few months previously.
• 80% of Christians support them against Israel.
• 80% of Druze support them against Israel.
• 89% of Sunnis support them against Israel.

yes the Lebanese did support them againt israel when Lebanon was occupied, so yes before the year 2000, their cause was legitimate. But after 2000, Lebanese lands aren't occupied, so why the hell start a freaking war for the sake of a few square meters of land (which's ownership isn't quite certain).

So to sum it up:

I don't want Lebanon(which is one of the weakest arabic countries military speaking) to be the only arabic country that is fighting israel as this only brings us destruction.
But as for hezbollah, their snake in the grass of a leader "Hassan nasrallah"
clearly stated that they will never stop fighting untill the complete liberation of Palestine. but given the facts, this is impossible atleast for the near future. So I don't want my country to be in a constant war which it has no intrest in, just because a political party\militia has a stronger military than the actualy country.

To those who rely upon social welfare, Hezbollah is ten times better than the government in their social welfare programs building hospitals and roads when the government refuses to.

they are more like a small country in the original country. Their followers never recognized the government. They never pay their taxes (electricity,water, and the whole nine yards) and even attack the government workers if they attempt to collect the taxes.

and yes they build hospital and road (only in their cities) which is only natural given the huge amount of funds they're given by Iran.


SO as a final conclusion, unless you actually live in Lebanon, you have no idea about hizbollah.

[Henry of Grosmont]

So so wrong, my friend. Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon in 1982. Hezbollah was founded in 1982 with the sole aim to remove Israel from their soil. In 2000 Israel withdrew from all areas of Lebanon except the Sheba farms. The Sheba farms is what Hezbollah attacked to spark off the 2006 war between them.

We were discussing it gazillion times, and you were proven wrong about it. But hey, you never get tired of your false assumptions and bringing up same false arguments.

[Treize]

The Sheba farms is what Hezbollah attacked to spark off the 2006 war between them.

false arguments.

I thought it started when Hezbollah raided a border post.
I think they wanted Isreal to attack them so the whole world could see how evil those 'zionist' are.
And then they dared to complain about 'human rights' while they fire rockets at Israeli villages.
They will never learn

[Henry of Grosmont]

I thought it started when Hezbollah raided a border post.
I think they wanted Isreal to attack them so the whole world could see how evil those 'zionist' are.
And then they dared to complain about 'human rights' while they fire rockets at Israeli villages.
They will never learn

You thought right. Add to thatshelling Israeli civilian settlements and you get the picture.

[Kiljan Arslan]

So so wrong, my friend. Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon in 1982. Hezbollah was founded in 1982 with the sole aim to remove Israel from their soil. In 2000 Israel withdrew from all areas of Lebanon except the Sheba farms. The Sheba farms is what Hezbollah attacked to spark off the 2006 war between them.

And the Sheba farms conflict originated between Lebanon and Syria Israel just inherited it.

[Phileas Fogg]

There is only some land left, the Sheba farms. The Sheba farms were the place where they attacked the IDF patrol which sparked the War in summer 2006.

They did not. First of all, Hizballah didn't attack Israel in the area of the Shaaba Farms, but they attacked them [and Israeli civillians] in the Northern Galilee. Also, Hizballah's leader, Nassrallah, clearly stated that the Shaaba Farms isn't the reason for the attacks upon Israel.

[Каие]

Ah yes, Indeed, Hezbollah attacked at Shelomi and that's right to the west of Shebaa. What am I thinking of? The 2000 border raid at Shebaa? God-damn. Soz guys.

[Henry of Grosmont]

Ah yes, Indeed, Hezbollah attacked at Shelomi and that's right to the west of Shebaa. What am I thinking of? The 2000 border raid at Shebaa? God-damn. Soz guys.

No probs, mate

[motiv-8]

This is a tired discussion informed more by media bias than anything else. But let's be clear about a couple things.

Hizbollah would not exist if it were not for Israeli occupation of South Lebanon and their encouragement of the Lebanese Civil War, as well as AMAL's ineptitude in facing the crisis.

Without Hizbollah, South Lebanon and parts of Beirut would be absolute cess-pits of decimation and human misery.

Hizbollah enjoys immense support by large portions of the Lebanese population for a variety of reasons, including political and humanitarian.

Hizbollah is an active political party that participates as evenly as other political parties in the government, and has gained power through democratic elections.

Based on these facts, it should be concluded that Hizbollah is as legitimate as can be. They are not perfect, but the label 'stupid terrorists' is about as ignorant and simplistic an argument as one could espouse.

[Treize]

Reactions in Lebanon

On 27 August, Hassan Nasrallah apologised to the Lebanese people for the incident that sparked the war, saying "Had we known that the capture of the soldiers would have led to this, we would definitely not have done it." This was the day before UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan's visit to Lebanon.[193] On 22 September, some eight hundred thousand Hezbollah supporters gathered in Beirut for a "victory rally".[194][195][196][dead link] Nasrallah then said that Hezbollah should celebrate the "divine and strategic victory".[194]
Lebanese desire to emigrate has increased since the war. Over a fifth of Shias, a quarter of Sunnis, and nearly half of Maronites have expressed the desire to leave Lebanon. Nearly a third of such Maronites have already submitted visa applications to foreign embassies, and another 60,000 Christians have already fled, as of April 2007. Lebanese Christians are concerned that their influence is waning, fear the apparent rise of radical Islam, and worry of potential Sunni-Shia rivalry.[197]

wikipedia

[Каие]

Reactions in Lebanon

On 27 August, Hassan Nasrallah apologised to the Lebanese people for the incident that sparked the war, saying "Had we known that the capture of the soldiers would have led to this, we would definitely not have done it." This was the day before UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan's visit to Lebanon.[193] On 22 September, some eight hundred thousand Hezbollah supporters gathered in Beirut for a "victory rally".[194][195][196][dead link] Nasrallah then said that Hezbollah should celebrate the "divine and strategic victory".[194]

Lebanese desire to emigrate has increased since the war. Over a fifth of Shias, a quarter of Sunnis, and nearly half of Maronites have expressed the desire to leave Lebanon. Nearly a third of such Maronites have already submitted visa applications to foreign embassies, and another 60,000 Christians have already fled, as of April 2007. Lebanese Christians are concerned that their influence is waning, fear the apparent rise of radical Islam, and worry of potential Sunni-Shia rivalry.[197]

wikipedia

You can't paint Hezbollah as a Christian hating party or a radical Islamist one. They simply are not. Out of over 1.6 million Christians [40%] 60,000 is not that big a deal. Besides where do they move? Syria. A safer country. Not one with no Muslims in.

You also missed this.

On 27 August, Hassan Nasrallah apologised to the Lebanese people for the incident that sparked the war, saying "Had we known that the capture of the soldiers would have led to this, we would definitely not have done it."

[motiv-8]

Nor should it come as any surprise that the Christians are fearing the loss of a power which they should not possess anyway.