Greek city states and use of the papal system

[ray243]

I was thinking, is it better to create the greek system of alliance using the Papal system?

You this way, you can ensure the greek states are strong by calling for a modified version of the 'crusade' ( meainging changing the name crusade to a call to arms).

This way, you have have Athens and Sparta being together and seperate at the same time.

This mean, Sparta can have the potential to be a superpower by themselves if the players is good in playing for that faction in the late game.

At the same time, in the early game, the player can depend on the papal system to ensure their weak faction can hold out.

[AWZC]

I like it, however Foot has stated that individually the Greek City States were too weak to be covered as individual factions.

My response would be that maybe they were weak, but they were highly influential and of great historical importance. It could be argued that, if Rome had been crushed by Hannibal, and then Carthage had become dominated by anti-barcid politicians, one of the individual greek city states would have risen up to power.

[ray243]

I like it, however Foot has stated that individually the Greek City States were too weak to be covered as individual factions.

My response would be that maybe they were weak, but they were highly influential and of great historical importance. It could be argued that, if Rome had been crushed by Hannibal, and then Carthage had become dominated by anti-barcid politicians, one of the individual greek city states would have risen up to power.

Exactly, just because they are weak at a certain stage does not mean they cannot be strong. After all, the very nature of total war games means we can choose to diverge from nature.

[delra]

Crusades system doesn't make sense in EB world. You call crusade to conquer a province for your religion/culture/whatever, not to defend your world against infidels. Crusading factions in M2TW do not cooperate, they race to the target (speed bonus) and they sit around it idling for ages after they reach it.

So Crusades system doesn't represent Call to Arms to all and is so broken in M2TW that should removed completely from the game. That's what Broken Crescent guys did in their mod. If they didn't want to use it in the medieval game in the middle east, I don't see how it can be useful in an ancient game.

You simply are forgetting how broken and unrealistic this whole crusade thing is...

[Ludens]

My response would be that maybe they were weak, but they were highly influential and of great historical importance. It could be argued that, if Rome had been crushed by Hannibal, and then Carthage had become dominated by anti-barcid politicians, one of the individual greek city states would have risen up to power.

Nah, they would most likely have been overrun by one of the successor states. It's a nice idea, but as Delra points out, it doesn't make sense in the EB context. Alliances between Greek city states tended to be defensive in nature, against a common foe, rather than a combined attempt to subjugate new lands.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

There are several problems with this idea. First of all, the Koinon Hellenon will not be broken up into separate factions. Each city, on its own was weak and non-expansionistic. Secondly, the crusades requires a Popal faction and a pope. This faction slot would be better used as an actual faction. Also, crusades require relgion, which is being completely reworked for EB2.

[Twfan55]

What about Jihad instead? You need approval from a cleric not a specific faction.

[decimator22]

It is a good idea, I would also like a warpath feature for the celts. Obviously representing migration, but we will have to wait until we know what religion will be.