marxist analysis of global economic crisis

[Platon]

I found this very interresting video of a professor lecturing about the economic crisis from a socialist view. 40 min long, subjective, but really good..

http://www.rethinkingmarxism.org/cms/node/1198

[ivan_the_terrible]

Interesting. Very interesting, in fact. Sure it's biased, but in a constructive way imo, since he actually proposes solutions in addition to attacking the capitalists.

[Sven788]

Lol I don't like Marxists.....

[Platon]

Lol I don't like Marxists.....

Even if your ideology is different.. it's a nice lecture - watch it, you might learn something

[Thorn777]

Even if your ideology is different.. it's a nice lecture - watch it, you might learn something

Dont get your hopes up. Hes a "dead fish".

On topic: I fear we have to face an ultimate collaps of the system within our lifetimes, because the masses in "the west" are simply without the means and mostly without the desire to bring about a sufficient solution concerning our staggering monotairy and indeed ecologic crisis. I guess the original Platon whas once again right, we simply have to fall back to chaos before a construction of a longlasting system can begin again.

Also the employe-directors-board-idea is not very new, it whas proposed on a different but large scale in Germany even by the cons. But I guess it whas just a carrot for the masses watching the media, feeling secure that our politicians come up with ideas that actually benefit the masses. I dont think they where seriously considering this, also because it would mean our share-holder-friends have to give in power and profits. Thats not gonna happen.

btw.Where is this a "marxist-analysis"? There are actually many real marxist analysis being very popular lately, explaining the current situation litterally by Das Kapital.

[Platon]

btw.Where is this a "marxist-analysis"? There are actually many real marxist analysis being very popular lately, explaining the current situation litterally by Das Kapital.

Thats what this professor do also.. in a simple way.

The capitalist way can only survive as long it's expanding. The only way to save themselves now are big wars that leads to rebuilding and a new expansion. Their problem is that they have to convince the poor masses to go to war against eachother using nationalist and/or religious propaganda. They have succeeded many times before - Can they fool us again..?

[Thorn777]

Thats what this professor do also.. in a simple way.

The capitalist way can only survive as long it's expanding. The only way to be save themselves now are big wars that leads to rebuilding and a new expansion. Their problem is that they have to convince the poor masses to go to war against eachother using nationalist and/or religious propaganda. They have succeeded many times before - Can they fool us again..?

Today one might say: realist. I hate to be labeld a Marxist when supporting some of his brilliant concepts.

Indeed, sad but true. Also I think inner-political problems(revolutions) could get to be a major problem for the system in severall still stable western countrys. Wich would resolve in totallitairian regimes, because I dont give "the masses" a chance in this hi-tech world.

Further the ecologic-issue can not be delpth with as long as profit and corruption disables responsible but expensive large scale solutions. Maybe when GM and the others go bankrupt etc, once again a phoenix raises from the ashes.

[Sven788]

Even if your ideology is different.. it's a nice lecture - watch it, you might learn something

In the first minute I knew he is trying to make advantage of the current situation to preach his socialist views.

Once again I hate marxists, I support capitalism all the way!
This is just one bad thing, however with full marxism we would have even more problems.

@Twfan55

Yeah, and Elvis, 2Pac and my little pony are slowly working towards a global-government, tacking away your freedoms to pay taxes for BS-militairy, instead they are luring you to pay for usefull soscialist-stuff.

Keep living in your socialist dream world where the poor live of the rich.
Btw: The military is not BS, socialism is BS.

Long live capitalism.

[Thorn777]

In the first minute I knew he is trying to make advantage of the current situation to preach his socialist views.

Once again I hate marxists, I support capitalism all the way!
This is just one bad thing, however with full marxism we would have even more problems.



Keep living in your socialist dream world where the poor live of the rich.
Btw: The military is not BS, socialism is BS.

Long live capitalism.

Ok lol, reversing basic facts of reallity here. Thats a typical republican tactic. It doesnt matter if you stand behind some popular republican issues, after all many of your vieuws are plain fascist and nothing else. Guys like you where the easy recruits for the NSB.

Edit.Atrum Prodigium

[Sven788]

Ok lol, reversing basic facts of reallity here. Thats a typical republican tactic. It doesnt matter if you stand behind some popular republican issues, after all many of your vieuws are plain fascist and nothing else. Guys like you where the easy recruits for the NSB.

Edit.Atrum Prodigium

ROFL!!!
Tell me something of my 'facist' views?
Standard lefty tactic to portray right as nazi.

[Lord de Lyonesse]

Even if your ideology is different.. it's a nice lecture - watch it, you might learn something

Yeah well i can say my ideology is really different, however i watched and i liked what i saw. Well done Platon

[Alkarin]

Yes ive noticed alot of socialist approval lately and more people turning to such ideas without even thinking of it as socialism

[Viking Prince]

This is a bit of a misleading view of the economy. Our economy produces both goods and services -- the share of each within the USA is changing with more service and less goods. He focuses on goods only -- and then only the people actually manufacturing. No mention of the white collar support or the export of services that is a balance against goods imported.

This is why the wages are flat or actually nearly flat. He also excludes benfits to make the flat wage arguement.

I especially liked how he lays complete blame on the Republicans for putting women to work in the labor market.

He is simply trying to capitalize on the current financial bubble problem to give a lift to his career. He might actually be an interesting professor and maybe helpful to thesis writing students. I, however, would avoid him at all costs.

I had to stop after 23 minutes -- probably 22 minutes more than I should have spent.

If this is the best of marxist ideology -- no wonder the west has dropped marxist ideology.

[Thorn777]

@Viking Prince

Although I liked his early "23 minutes" wich do get carried by some irreversable facts, he indeed travells a bit away from the path. I can asure you would like the other "16" more. There he goes towards some interresting concepts, who are like I earlyer mentioned simular with some of the CDU(German cons) economic concepts. Dont be scared off by the way he uses the term communism to describe the concept, I guess it whas a joke.

btw.No, there are many "marxist" intellectuals out there, ofwich many are well respected. I guess in the US not so many as in good old Europe.

@Twfan55

Yeah, and Elvis, 2Pac and my little pony are slowly working towards a global-government, tacking away your freedoms to pay taxes for BS-militairy, instead they are luring you to pay for usefull soscialist-stuff. Dont get me started with Conan the barbarian thinking of a comeback big-time. Come on wake up.

[Platon]

This is a bit of a misleading view of the economy. Our economy produces both goods and services -- the share of each within the USA is changing with more service and less goods. He focuses on goods only -- and then only the people actually manufacturing. No mention of the white collar support or the export of services that is a balance against goods imported.

This is why the wages are flat or actually nearly flat. He also excludes benfits to make the flat wage arguement.

I especially liked how he lays complete blame on the Republicans for putting women to work in the labor market.

He is simply trying to capitalize on the current financial bubble problem to give a lift to his career. He might actually be an interesting professor and maybe helpful to thesis writing students. I, however, would avoid him at all costs.

I had to stop after 23 minutes -- probably 22 minutes more than I should have spent.

If this is the best of marxist ideology -- no wonder the west has dropped marxist ideology.

Right.. lets see were he is wrong..

A) The working class (in manufacture or service industry -doesen't matter) wages are lower (relatively) than ever before.
B) We have to work longer hours (the 8 hour working day is a thing of the past in most western countries)
C) Our women have to have a full time job also otherwise it's impossible to make ends meet
D) On top of that, we have to BORROW the money to buy things necessary for our living (house, car, etc..) - ending up in dept for the rest of your life forcing you to work more and more just so you can survive..

[Viking Prince]

Right.. lets see were he is wrong..

A) The working class (in manufacture or service industry -doesen't matter) wages are lower (relatively) than ever before.
B) We have to work longer hours (the 8 hour working day is a thing of the past in most western countries)
C) Our women have to have a full time job also otherwise it's impossible to make ends meet
D) On top of that, we have to BORROW the money to buy things necessary for our living (house, car, etc..) - ending up in dept for the rest of your life forcing you to work more and more just so you can survive..

I do not want to flood a bunch of census data onto the forum. The weekly hours worked per employee is pretty stable since Pres. Carter. we are talking fluctuations but staying in the 37 - 38 hours per week. If you use only industrial workers, there is also no real changes.

The fact that women are a part of the work force is a demographic choice issue that has grown steadily since 1900. If you include agricultural and service workers it is actually fairly stable since 1960. The choice of employment is probably more related to labor saving devices in the home and the resulting decrease in domestic help as well as uncompensated labor in the home.

The fact of borrowing money to purchase is also a false argument. The consumption must more or less equal income over the course of a lifetime. By being able to borrow and save -- the typical worker is able to better level out consumption. This is not a bad thing. The fact that some do not handle debt wisely is really a seperate issue and should not be mixed with labor questions -- he does so because it suits his arguements, not because it is correct.

The truth is that differant cultures have differant values of work versus leisure. Dfferant demands for vacation and fringe benefits. The good professor ignores these differences and somehow weaves that we are just going into the dumpster but he is restricting this to factor labor.

This is a cheat. It is not really an issue if all work is aggregated -- he actually uses the seperation to blame the white collar workers for taking an increasing share when this is really a dynamic of where America is competitive with the rest of the world and this is where people seek to profit by opportunity.

Take the automobile industry. The design and engineering is primarily a European and American niche even for the Japanese and Koran industry. The fact that the car is assembled in Korean does not change this.

Also the componants are part of a worldwide distribution network. It stands to reason that as more of the world industrializes that trade in componants will increase and the share of the componants produced in America will decrease. This does not mean that the aggregate numbers decline however.

It also does not mean that if it takes less workers to produce a widget that somehow this is a disaster. We produce a greater variety of widgets. The good professor ignores this in his discussion.

I have wandered a bit, but that is partially because the good professor wanders and does not actually state precise facts.

[Dracula]

This is a cheat. It is not really an issue if all work is aggregated -- he actually uses the seperation to blame the white collar workers for taking an increasing share when this is really a dynamic of where America is competitive with the rest of the world and this is where people seek to profit by opportunity.

Well indeed the administrative body has to have the bigger share. It is a geometrical justice. The most is worked out not by the workers but by the organisers. This is one of the major mistakes of socialism. It is the organisators due to whom the whole enterprise is running and they must not be ruled by the mere contributors to it,the workers. They must not interfere with the decision business. It will only paralise everything.

Another thing I found fake in the video is the explanation of the baloon of increased loans and disproportion caused by real ability to work out and pay back. An inability to collect loans by the banking system may not be necessarily connected with labour. It can be a simple result of assessing with bigger value guarantees when giving loans.

[PacSubCom]

Right.. lets see were he is wrong..

A) The working class (in manufacture or service industry -doesen't matter) wages are lower (relatively) than ever before.
B) We have to work longer hours (the 8 hour working day is a thing of the past in most western countries)
C) Our women have to have a full time job also otherwise it's impossible to make ends meet
D) On top of that, we have to BORROW the money to buy things necessary for our living (house, car, etc..) - ending up in dept for the rest of your life forcing you to work more and more just so you can survive..

I think there is some psychological aspect too - it is not only about surviving, but to feel worthy in a society which measures worth by what you can consume.

So if you don't feel worth something you are depressed, and you maybe go into a downward spiral, your spouse leaves you, you lose your job, you won't find a new spouse etc. This is why he talks about the destruction of the family. The stress put upon the family by these outside factors is causing it, not the mere fact that women have a job (he won't be a good socialist if he thought women have to stay at home).

And yes, the "working class" is everybody who works for a wage, as opposed to those who pay wages, which is the "board of directors". And most people working for a wage are not rich. Some are, but not most.

Overall, I find his talk interesting. He gives an explanation for the malaise that afflicts the world economy today.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

People still buy into "marxist" stuff? Look what happened with the Soviet Union et all who chosed it.

Marx's own critique of capitalism in Das Kapital had one or two merits, but I want to stay far far away from his proposed system.

[ivan_the_terrible]

I think he massively over-estimates the working class when he says they wont go for liberal solution because they "remember what happened before". People don't remember, thats the problem.

@Everyone who's rubbishing this professor,

While you may not agree with Socialism or Marxism as a whole, what exactly is the problem with workers having a greater say in how the business is run??