Billmen.....are they worth it?

[Irish King]

Hi everyone I just started another English campaign and i would like to know if I should bother recruiting billmen. I play defensiveley on battles and levy spearmen fit this role well for me. if I do use billmen what are their uses in a battle? Any help would be welcome.

Thanks guys!

[Georgy Zhukov]

No, use Armored Sergeants

[Preston85]

No, use Armored Sergeants

Thats helpful telling him to use a unit that he can't... unless you know he's playing a mod which he never said.



I use Billmen, only 1 or 2 per stack purely as flankers, mainly because my Longbowmen's spikes would kill my cavalry if I tried to use them to charge the flank/rear of the enemy .

Oh and Levy Spearmen = Spear Militia so you might as well use Spear Militia.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Thats helpful telling him to use a unit that he can't... unless you know he's playing a mod which he never said.

Only, n00bsause plays vanilla.

get them, Im sure there are several mods that just add them as their sole feature they're much better then billmen and are a good infantry unit all around.

[Callawyn]

Spearmen are fine early on, but when you start facing better cavalry and heavy infantry in enemy armies, you'll really need heavy infantry in your own. You're far better off having defensive heavy inf as your main line with an offensive heavy inf on each flank than if you have a line of spearmen. Especially so as the English since you'll usually be fighting behind a line of stakes. Also, for sieges, offensively or defensively, heavy infantry performs MUCH better than spearmen on walls and fighting in narrow streets. Don't forget that better units tend to have better morale as well, which is not on the info card but makes a huge difference. IMO units with bonus vs Armor are much more useful than those with bonus vs Cavalry from mid-game on. Same goes for units with high base armor, even if no shield at all, over units with good shields. AI is pretty stupid about what to target with their missile units, pretty easy to have units with no shields avoid being the unit targetted by enemy missiles, while good armor has a big effect on how difficult a unit is to kill in all situations.

[roy34543]

as extremely cheap assault infantry to flanks, yes. Theyre a cheap (and slow) alternative to cavalry though..

[Mikiez]

I like using billmen when I have no money and I am fighting an advanced army(They do decent against heavy armor)

[Irish King]

okay thanks, and i don't use levy spearmen once i get fortresses only when i have JUST castles. i don't like levy spearmen i just think they are better than billmen. Thanks again.

[Landtuber]

On that note, anyone have any uses for heavy bill militia? I've converted a massive portion of my empire to cities to further trade, and am using heavy bill militia as the unit to kill rebels. However, they really seem to falter against almost everything... Their stamina is horrible, they take large quantities of damage from arrows and charges, and can't seem to outlast anything except low level spearmen/peasants in a fixed fight.

Does anyone think their worth it?

[Celsius]

they are good diversions when your planning a big frontal attack. Good flanking infantry.

[UhOhIt'sAnArrow]

They are pretty good against armor and do decent damage. Just keep them protected from charges and arrowfire and you should be fine. (shock infantry) Overall though, they shoudln't make up the backbone of your army or be expected to hold a line.

[robbo]

I find them really effective at hacking down heavy cavalry. Providing you keep them protected from a charge with stakes or spearmen, they destroy even the best of cavalry units in hand-to-hand combat. However, don't expect them to stand up to a charge in the same way other heavy infantry such as armoured swordsmen (and spearmen obviously) can.

Whatever you do don't use them to hold a line. They're shock infantry and should be sent in to kill or rout a unit that is already engaged. They're certainly very useful up until the point where you can get DEK, after which I only use them when I'm desperate or when they have free upkeep in cities.

[Barry]

I once made the mistake of disbanding my spear infantry and recruiting billmen as early as I could. They looked like they had big spears on the unit card... nope lol.

[Owain Glyndŵr]

I pretty much agree with what's been said; they're heavy infantry, but they don't excel at holding a line against cavalry or shock troops. I'd hold on to those spearmen while the game is still early, but purchase some billmen to guard your flanks and countercharge approaching infantry. An example:

Spearmen holding the main defensive line, protecting the archers. Dense groups of billmen on either side. If the enemy charges with heavy cavalry or infantry, your spearmen should be able to absorb the charge, but will falter in a protracted battle; so once the enemy's stuck fighting the spearmen, the billmen charge in from the sides and either crush or rout the attackers. Just remember that defending those Longbowmen is your first priority!

[Surgeon]

Provided they don't get caught in the charge, Billmen can do a lot of damage to cavalry. Heavy Bill Militia can be pretty good for city defense where there's usually little room for a charge. On the open field and against infantry... not so much. But if you can pull off a successful flanking maneuver they can still kill a goodly number of enemies.

[MedievalDragoon]

they can destroy an isolated armored unit if they out number it,and are good at keeping the enemys weaker units from wearing down your stronger units. Thats all I use them for.

[Bowden]

I reckon they're rubbish. I was astonished by their weak appearances in battle. I usually recruit loads of heavy cavalry and one unit of light infantry. My infantry and archers soften their lines up, infantry used as annoyer/distracter, after their main line is occupied my horses charge em down.

[Owain Glyndŵr]

I'm not a fan of the Heavy Bill Militia. The only real use I've found is cramming them into a breach during a siege... they're not very good fighters, but thanks to their armour they can absorb some fire before fleeing.

[Callawyn]

I think of them as offensive heavy infantry. Basically flankers. I never use them to form my main line of battle. Instead, put one at each end of the line in the second rank. Once my main battle line meets the enemy's, I rush the Billmen around to flank. Also useful to pile onto any enemy cavalry engaged nearby.

Idea is to have to AI units be targetting and attacking something else, and use your Billmen to attack a flank or rear and do some serious killing. Most notably effective when fighting against heavily armored enemies, which your other units might not be as effective in killing.

I've also seen them survive very well and do a lot of damage when fighting on walls and narrow streets against a mix of enemy cavalry/spearmen, including enemy generals (well, heavy Billmen anyway).

[Internazionale]

The billmen are still useless after the patches. I NEVER use them. The only thing they are good for is routing like the cowardly peasant troops they are. I would rather have 1 unit of dismounted knights than 3 units of billmen.