Does the cold make you stronger/fitter?

[Gungalley]

Many elite forces all over the world train in cold weather, even if their country of origin has a primarily warm climate. It is not unheard of for elite soldiers to jump naked into frozen lakes as part of training, or shower in the snow.

People from really cold countries, ie. Russians, Koreans, Northern Chinese, Scandanavians seem really tough and menacing. In fact, some aryan supremacists claim that there is a greater proportion of fit people in cold countries (incidentally, their cold countries usually consist of only northern and western europe).

So is this fact or myth? If it is fact, what is the basis of it?

[Hounf of Culan]

Those guys who train in the cold would probably like none other if they got into some 120 degree weather. If you are used to the cold you about what isn't really that hot and if like myself you are from the desert you about 50 degree weather being cold. I think that aspect is just being accustomed to a certain habitat.


In regards to people from northern climates stereotypically being stronger and taller I think that is somewhat true. When you think of historically tall, strong people you generally think of Ruskies, norsemen, Germans, Scots etc. All these people come from what are on average very cold climates. Cold climates encourage the development of taller and stronger people, just bigger people. If you take a dude with little muscle mass and then get him to start bulking up the surface area of his skin will increase as his muscle density increases. However, there is a point at which muscle density will continue to increase but the surface area of skin will not increase any further. The more the muscle density increases the harder it becomes for the body to transfer the heat it produces to the outside environment. The increasing surface area of skin will deal with this until it stops expanding, at which point it just gets harder and harder to transfer the heat out of the body because you keep on getting more heat producing muscle but the surface area is no longer expanding to alleviate the heat problem. Think of all the huge guys in the NFL who are not fat but just have ridiculous amounts of muscle. These guys get really hot when they are playing, keeping their body temperatures at normal levels is a real challenge because they produce so much heat. Thats why they have fans with misters, cold towels, cold metal plates to press their hands against, all these things are meant to keep their body temps in check. A cold environment makes it much easier for the body to dissipate the heat it produces simply because the heat transfers much more quickly from the body to 40 degree air than it does to 80 degree air. Over a great deal of time the human body has adapted to this so that humans in say Scandinavia are far more likely to be much bigger and stronger than a human population in a relatively hot equatorial climate. Chances are the average northerner is going to be noticeably bigger and stronger than the average southerner.

[kelvintyk]

Maybe that's why you'd see Asians are mostly pretty much rather short and smaller in size compared to most europeans.

[Viking Prince]

Size has been related to nutrition and medical care. The same westerner Europeans are related to those in the USA and Australia. The British were simply astounded by the size difference between the UK soldiers and the Aussies in the Ottoman Campagn in WWI. The same with the Americans in France.

Another post had it correct -- train in the environment that you expect to fight in -- cold is only special if that is where the soldiers will be fighting. However, in general adversity does help mold a team. Conquoring the elements together is always a good training technique.

[Wiertz]

Wasn't it so that people in cold area's are actually smaller then in hot area's. Because it is very cold your body stays as small as possible to keep its heat as close as possible to it's organs. You can see this by the people that live in northern Canada/Siberia etc. These people are called: Eskimo's! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo)

That Western/Northern Europe and Russians are large has an other cause. One is that it is due to the nutrition and medical care they received through the ages. Don't forget people in the medieval age were only 1.5m to 1.6m. An other i think it that western Europe(not france) inhabits germanic people(Aryan or whatever you like to call them). This "race' is different from the eskimo's who are more asian oriented.
http://www.geocities.com/asatru_oest...th_warrior.jpg (you know who i mean with germanic )
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/texas/p...family-600.jpg


but ontopic: Yes, i think cold can make you stronger/fitter in a sence that you can easier adapt to the cold. The same way these soldiers also train in very hot or damp area's.

[Tankfriend]

About the correlation of climate and body size/mass: I remembered my biology classes from school (which aren't that far away given that I'm just out of it ) and we were talking about the following things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergmann%27s_Rule
Bergmann's Rule
This states that the colder the climate an animal lives in is, the larger it's body size and -mass will be (like Hounf of Culan suggested earlier). The point is that the gain in body mass outweighs the comparably low increase in body surface (by producing more heat), meaning that you've got more ressources at your disposal while your "costs" (e.g. temperature loss) only differ slightly.
In hot areas, it's going the other way around of course: A small body only produces low heat but loses a lot of heat because of the comparatively large body surface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen%27s_Rule
Allen's Rule
This rule states that animals living in cold climate areas have smaller limbs or appendages (e.g. ears) in order to reduce the body surface area which in turn reduces the loss of heat.
Animals in hot areas conversely tend to have very large limbs or appendages to increase their body surface area so they dissipate more heat.

Here's an example: Apply the above rules and compare a Fennek (desert fox) and an Arctic Fox:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fennec_Fox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Fox

We've just got one problem: Those rules only partly apply to humans because there are many other factors like food supply, medical supply etc. (as said before already) that don't usually apply to animals. But the basic idea seems to be quite obvious: Training in cold environment makes you better suited for cold environments (given enough time), but it's rather unlikely to be more effective than training in other climate areas.

Edit: I completed the sentence at the beginning; must have missed that completely...

[chamaeleo]

About the correlation of climate and body size/mass: I remembered my biology classes from school (which aren't t

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergmann%27s_Rule
Bergmann's Rule
This states that the colder the climate an animal lives in is, the larger it's body size and -mass will be (like Hounf of Culan suggested earlier). The point is that the gain in body mass outweighs the comparably low increase in body surface (by producing more heat), meaning that you've got more ressources at your disposal while your "costs" (e.g. temperature loss) only differ slightly.
In hot areas, it's going the other way around of course: A small body only produces low heat but loses a lot of heat because of the comparatively large body surface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen%27s_Rule
Allen's Rule
This rule states that animals living in cold climate areas have smaller limbs or appendages (e.g. ears) in order to reduce the body surface area which in turn reduces the loss of heat.
Animals in hot areas conversely tend to have very large limbs or appendages to increase their body surface area so they dissipate more heat.

Here's an example: Apply the above rules and compare a Fennek (desert fox) and an Arctic Fox:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fennec_Fox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Fox

We've just got one problem: Those rules only partly apply to humans because there are many other factors like food supply, medical supply etc. (as said before already) that don't usually apply to animals. But the basic idea seems to be quite obvious: Training in cold environment makes you better suited for cold environments (given enough time), but it's rather unlikely to be more effective than training in other climate areas.

Beat me to it! Nicely summarized. Folks are just so durned resistent to the idea that humans evolved to be the way they are, I really like seeing others throwing it out there too.

[Markas]

Isn't this just something your dad tells you to save money on heating?

[Neptulon]

Why do yuo guys thinks that snowbears and the mammoths are/were so big?

[Lord de Lyonesse]

Many elite forces all over the world train in cold weather, even if their country of origin has a primarily warm climate. It is not unheard of for elite soldiers to jump naked into frozen lakes as part of training, or shower in the snow.

People from really cold countries, ie. Russians, Koreans, Northern Chinese, Scandanavians seem really tough and menacing. In fact, some aryan supremacists claim that there is a greater proportion of fit people in cold countries (incidentally, their cold countries usually consist of only northern and western europe).

So is this fact or myth? If it is fact, what is the basis of it?

I see why they do this but what happens if you up agains a enemy in the jungle in in the desert..

[C-Rob]

Well, in running it makes a lot of people run better, albeit uncomfortably until they get a few minutes in and their bodies are warmed.

My rabbits are eating a ton right now to get body mass to keep warm this winter, if that's any kind of useful information. Doubled their rations.

[Iscariott]

I dont think size in human populations has much to do with climate, outside of 'native' peoples. Too much modernity. Whats the point of trimming down an animal to fit a cold climate when that animal is just going to cover its self in a enough other creatures furs/nomex(depending on era) to stay warm.

The point of training people in harsh conditions is to see if they break under them. Doing 50 pushups sucks really hard, doing 50 pushups while leaving a snow marine under you I imagine is a lot harder/more demoralizing. The 'toughening up' of the regimine has to do with psychological factors not physical ones. Except you burn more calories in the cold.

[Norge]

There's probably some truth to it if you go back 500 years or so when the temperature was especially unforgiving. The weak would freeze to death and only the strong would remain.

In todays modern world, I doubt it. The number of spineless hippies in Scandinavia is just astounding.

[Hounf of Culan]

yah nowadays I don't think it applies so much because modern nutrition in particular is so important in determining body size that it can easily overcome living in a hot climate.

[Copperknickers II]

Extremes of temperature create a higher pain tolerance, and in places like Scotland we have (or rather, had) to be strong due to our lifestyle. The highland games are not just for show, our entire life was focused on warfare, cutting down trees for heat, weathering any water, wind or snow along the way. Almost all warrior cultures are tall.

[Neptulon]

Extremes of temperature create a higher pain tolerance, and in places like Scotland we have (or rather, had) to be strong due to our lifestyle. The highland games are not just for show, our entire life was focused on warfare, cutting down trees for heat, weathering any water, wind or snow along the way. Almost all warrior cultures are tall.

Exactly like the vikings. The greatest warriors during their time I would say.

[Chaigidel]

perhaps the ratio of meat eating since you have longer winter months you have to eat more meat to survive rather than relying on crops as heavily as southerners.

[kelvintyk]

perhaps the ratio of meat eating since you have longer winter months you have to eat more meat to survive rather than relying on crops as heavily as southerners.

Yes that makes perfect sense. Meat such as beef, pork or chicken isn't used as commonly here in Asia compared to Europe or America whereby your lifestyles revolve pretty much around beef and pork no?

[Surgeon]

In harsher times, I'd figure people living in colder areas would probably be bigger/stronger/more fit/what-you-will. Mammals seem to have a trend of getting larger the farther north you go, but also have smaller populations. Comparing individuals would probably see the northerners as overall more fit.

In today's world, however, probably doesn't apply quite as much. But training soldiers to withstand extreme temperatures (both hot and cold) would certainly do them good.

[Nutsack]

The reason the Romans were of such short stature was their highly developed agrarian society. In comparison, the Germanics and Gauls of France and the Rhine had not developed as much into an agrarian society and still had an effective hunting class.

Bread = short people
Meat = tall people

So it would make sense that people in cold environments, where you couldn't grow as much wheat, are generally of higher stature (only historically though - now when most countries have a good meat portion in their diets it has evened out).