An interesting IRC chat on Islam

[LSJ]

Part of it, at least.

Some time around 9:00 pm last night on a strange and unknown IRC channel, a conversation *almost* exactly like this occurred. A bit unexpected and it all came out of one guy posting a link to a news story and then another guy responding to it very negatively. This is the "conversation" coming from that guy's response.
___________

Internets: Why do you have a problem with Shiites?
Yarrrrrrrh: because they are heretics
Internets: But they believe in the same god as you.
Yarrrrrrrh: yes
Yarrrrrrrh: but they are wrong
Internets: There's a lot of differences between Sunni schools too, so why do you only pick on Shiites?
Yarrrrrrrh: because they are liars
Internets: Why? Because of the "rightful successor" issue?
Yarrrrrrrh: ya
Internets: and because of that you think they should burn in Hell?
Internets: That makes no sense to me.
Yarrrrrrrh: theyre religion is different
Internets: They are also worshippers of Allah, who pray the same way, go to Mosques, believe in the same things
Internets: what makes you think your specific version of Islam is correct?
Yarrrrrrrh: ...
Internets: By persecuting the Shiites you are going against the will of Muhammed (pbuh)
Yarrrrrrrh: no wtf
Internets: Did not he lead the Muslims to war against the oppressive Pagans?
Internets: was not the point of his war originally to eliminate the persecution of Muslims?
Yarrrrrrrh: yes, soo?
Internets: Shiites are Muslims too. No one knows which specific school Allah wants everyone to follow.
Internets: The schools of Islam today didnt exist in the time of Muhammed (pbuh). There is no precendent to persecute other Muslims without dangerous assumtpions
Yarrrrrrrh: wat about Ayatollah Khomeini? animal raping monster
Deva: lololol
Internets: he was a corrupt person with some perverted views. He wasn't "Shia Inc."
Internets: By persecuting Muslims you are going against what Muhammed (pbuh) fought for, what the first Muslims died for, and therefor you are committing a great insult to them and to Allah.
Yarrrrrrrh: GTFO
Internets. no u. i r educatring y'all
Internets: Until God himself comes and tells us what is right, committing crimes against any Muslim is against the rules set forth in the Quran.
Internets: The Quran is the base of Islam and "Muslims" like you spit on it by living contrary to its primary rules.
*Yarrrrrrrh has been disconnected from the channel (Client disconnect)
Deva: Pwnt?
Internets: dunno lol. I kinda spammed but it was fun.
_____

Thoughts?

T'was fun to say the least.

[Sumonious]

What can be more insane than war between different belief ? War between different school in one belief . Protestant against Christian, Shiite against Sunni, even the communist wage war among themselves, so stupid.

[jankren]

Protestant against Christian

LOL

This 'Internets' got it spot on. That ''Yaraargh' idiotic Muslim is everything that is wrong with the worlds Muslims, and Islam in general today... the quicker Darwin's theory of Natural Selection kicks in the better.

Yeah, but in that case then the peaceful Muslims would be wiped out.

[Arto]

That was rubbish (his reply's )

[Каие]

This 'Internets' got it spot on. That ''Yaraargh' idiotic Muslim is everything that is wrong with the worlds Muslims, and Islam in general today... the quicker Darwin's theory of Natural Selection kicks in the better. Too bad it doesn't work that way.

[Каие]

lol, yeah good point. Good thing there is no such thing as peaceful Muslims.

[Sumonious]

@Jankren: You mean I should put "Christian against Protestant",right ?

[Pious Agnost]

@Jankren: You mean I should put "Christian against Protestant",right ?

Protestants and Catholics are Christians, in the same way Shi'ites and Sunni are Muslim, I think what he finds funny is that Protestantism was founded because the Catholics were intolerant, and that it was mostly Catholics persecuting Protestants rather than the other way round, but maybe he found something else funny. Besides, I have yet to hear of a major Protestant-Catholic dispute since about... the 1800s?

[Bokks]

Protestants and Catholics are Christians, in the same way Shi'ites and Sunni are Muslim, I think what he finds funny is that Protestantism was founded because the Catholics were intolerant, and that it was mostly Catholics persecuting Protestants rather than the other way round, but maybe he found something else funny. Besides, I have yet to hear of a major Protestant-Catholic dispute since about... the 1800s?

Oh, I'd say that there is an ongoing struggle between Catholics and the various Protestant groups, but yeah, as far as violence goes... well, if you count Ireland then probably about ten years ago for the height, but it's still ongoing there as well.

What I think Jankren found funny initially was that the poster put Protestant vs. Christian, not involving Catholics in particular at all.

[basics]

Suppose there never had been Christianity, that Jesus or Messias had never come as the hebrews for the most believe, where does that leave Islam?

Was the message of Gabriel not of Jesus not being Messias, therefore not God, Mohammed then the chosen one, means that there would never in likelihood ever have been a visitation from Gabriel at all.

And, if this is true then what also is true is that the Covenant that God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob must still be in existence, must still be legally binding, since a Testament only stops at the death of someone, in this case God.

That being the case then Israel is still God's chosen people and by that Covenant we still await Messias, Mohammed not being of the tribes or the Covenant cannot then supercede them.

[Каие]

And, if this is true then what also is true is that the Covenant that God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob must still be in existence, must still be legally binding, since a Testament only stops at the death of someone, in this case God

no that's according to CHRISTIANS. According to Jews, Jesus is irrelevant, and according to Muslims Jesus is alive and well.

[Pious Agnost]

Oh, I'd say that there is an ongoing struggle between Catholics and the various Protestant groups, but yeah, as far as violence goes... well, if you count Ireland then probably about ten years ago for the height, but it's still ongoing there as well.

What I think Jankren found funny initially was that the poster put Protestant vs. Christian, not involving Catholics in particular at all.

Oh yeah :hmmm:

[hellheaven1987]

Protestants and Catholics are Christians, in the same way Shi'ites and Sunni are Muslim, I think what he finds funny is that Protestantism was founded because the Catholics were intolerant, and that it was mostly Catholics persecuting Protestants rather than the other way round, but maybe he found something else funny. Besides, I have yet to hear of a major Protestant-Catholic dispute since about... the 1800s?

Not really, actually Protestant (which is a title for a lot of different branchs of Christianity) persecuted themselves even more.

[Pious Agnost]

Not really, actually Protestant (which is a title for a lot of different branchs of Christianity) persecuted themselves even more.

I know the meaning of Protestant , but we all love each other really. But I'd
say back in the good ol' days the Catholics were the most intolerant and violent towards anything other than themselves

[hellheaven1987]

I know the meaning of Protestant , but we all love each other really. But I'd
say back in the good ol' days the Catholics were the most intolerant and violent towards anything other than themselves

Back in the good old day (I assume you mean the good old Thirty Years War) Lutheran prefered to cut Calvinist's throat more than Catholics.

Why?? Simply because Lutheran viewed Calvinist even less Christian than Catholics.

[AngryTitusPullo]

@basics

Muhammad is just a messenger, the last of the long list of messengers from God. He's no superhero human being bringing in new religion. The only difference is that unlike the earlier messengers Muhammad's message is not just for his people (the Arabs) but to all tribes and nations while his previous predecessors are sent to their specific tribes and nation.

It doesn't matter if there's no Jesus or messiahs. Jews still have loads of other messengers sent before him.

[basics]

LestaT,

Yes, there indeed has been lots of messengers from God who before the tribes were chosen were not Jews but the whole point is that they had a uniform, singular message, unbroken because it was from God. That is the measure of a prophet who is not false.

Islam's problem is that this is indeed a different message that does not follow or run with all them before and is based on downing Jesus from " God with us " to one lesser than Mohammed on the supposed say-so of an angel who was quite specific when he spoke with Mary, Joseph, Elizabeth, Zacharias and another old lady, whose name escapes me at the moment, all those years before.

What he told them then was what the prophets had been predicting from Genesis onwards. It was not a new religion but a fulfillment of what was promised, one already established from before the foundations of the world and seen by the fall of man and the gift of Abel to God. A lamb offered just as Jesus would be offered and all legally bound in heaven and earth.

In effect what Islam tells it's people is that they must not worry, do their best, for God is not as wrathful as is said and He will show mercy for their sinful lives regardless of their sinfilled nature. Other religions teach much the same, especially those claiming Christianity, but you all miss the point. Sin is inbuilt by the fall into the nature of man and it is this that must be cut out should any ever see heaven.

The sins a man does are only outward but the real problem lies within him, his heart, his blood, his soul are bound by the curse and condemned by Law making his entry to God's world impossible. A man may work his socks off all his life but he cannot change what he is made of. That is why it is imperative to be born again, but you cannot be born again unless the Law is satisfied.

Mohammed does not provide for that but Jesus Christ does. I understand how difficult this may be to you but only God justifies, saves, and that by regeneration, through shed blood, the price demanded by God for sin. Without regeneration, no-one can get into heaven, for that is the mercy provided by God that some most surely will.

To believe that God has some other method, has the ability to over-ride His own righteousness seen by the commandments and the Law, is more or less what Eve fell for when in the garden of Eden and we all should know the consequences of that. But God cannot change. It is sinful man that must change and changed by the hand of God before death because death is the end of hope where no regeneration has taken place.

[C-Rob]

That way of typing is uncanily like my best friend's... HE would say the same thing to a muslim... Pwnt is right.


Anyways, on earlier mention of Catholic vs protestant, I'm catholic, but protestantism makes a lot of sense and I bear them no ill-will. Ireland and britain are just a bunch of warring europeans. If it wasn't relgion, it'd be something else. Soccer any one?

[ivan_the_terrible]

I think he found it funny because Protestants are Christians. The guy either got momentarily confused, mistyped, or doesn't realise that both Catholics and Protestants are in fact Christian.

[motiv-8]

I don't find too much interesting in this conversation by way of subject matter. Assuming this was a real conversation, which is likely enough judging by similar experiences, then the Sunni chatter was merely using labels in order to pronounce and in some way justify his own identity contra to the 'other', which by default must be 'wrong'. It's a pretty standard portrait of self-identification and itsn't specific to any one group of people.

Just like basics, here. There are clear similarities, despite the apparent contrasts, between the Sunni chatter and basics. No offense intended.