View Poll Results: What-if: Which kind of threat from the east you want to see in mid game?

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29. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yuezhi Invasion

    12 41.38%
  • Chinese Invasion

    6 20.69%
  • Invasion form India

    6 20.69%
  • I known others to suggest.

    0 0%
  • I want all of them.

    5 17.24%
  • I don't think invasion should happen.

    0 0%
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Thread: Poll: Threat from the east.

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  1. #1
    Suppanut's Avatar Idea-O-Matic
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    Default Poll: Threat from the east.

    Due to so few factions which active in the eastern edge of the map so by time of Marius reform eastern part of the map are usually safe and stable so I start thinking about something series of off-map invasion similar to mongol invasion in MTW at time around a bit before marian reform to some that a bit after that. Here is invasion which is historically occured or possible what if.

    1) Yuezhi Invasion
    Historically around 177-70 BC. Their invasion have effect last long in central asia they cause end of Greco-Bactria kingdom although Indo-Greek Kingdom still survived later on. Their army should be Mainly steppe cavalry both lancer and horse archer with very few infantry. To made it possible need to add some varity of steppe cavalry which could be use as AOR(yes they invasion before reform but AOR should be after reform. If use Alex so they could reinforceement via mercenary though.)

    Army composition
    Steppe cavalry(light lancer with javelin)(would be good to include as AOR for eastern steppe)
    Steppe Horse Archer(same as eastern steppe horse archer)
    Steppe Infantry

    2) Han Wudi's Invasion of Ferghana from China
    Historically happen around 104-100 BC after diplomatic failure cause by Greco-Bactrian-Saka ruler of Dayuan(translate as Great Ionian, maybe equivalent to Bactria faction in XGM) executed chinese diplomat and confiscated tribute which intent use for buy fine breed horse of the area(blood-sweat horse which known in china as dragon-horse). This insult cause Expansionist Emperor Han Wudi furious greatly so he order his army to across Takalamakan desert and Tianshan mountains to invade the area. Invasion come in 2 waves and both lead by General and emperor brother in law Li Gaungli first wave have 26,000 man(20,000 chinese+6,000 steppe cavalry) which fail by many reasons and immediately follow by second wave with 60,000(cannot more than that due to logistic nightmare) which could be force their enemy to surrander and take prize include 3,000 fine breed horse home as well as force other nighbour into submmission. Due to cost, hardship, and logistic nightmare cause by Tianshan Range and Takalamakan desert made chinese nolonger interested in sent army into Central Asia until during half-turkic dynasty of Tang(about 618-907 AD) but those 3,000 horses could bred and help developing better/bigger horses for chinese cavalry to the level of Parthia/Sassanid later on(before that chinese horse are at the size of pony mongolian horse which not suit for heavy cavalry.).

    Army composition of Han dynasty(should appear as part of Eastern Kingdom).
    Han army are not so high morale and lightly armour but their strength lay in hi tech weapon in their hand included.
    Steppe cavalry(light lancer with javelin)(would be good to include as AOR for eastern steppe)
    Steppe Horse Archer(same as eastern steppe horse archer)
    Han Crossbowmen
    Han Helbardier(using Ge as weapon)(anti-horse+AP)
    Han Swordmen
    Han Medium Cavalry (Han elite cavalry which can't be heavier due to their small light horse and tired early)

    To implement this need to add more units to work.

    3) Invasion from India
    Quite likely to possible ranged from Maurya era to the age of Sunga empire. They should invade in full set of indian units like in future PMP or Res Gastae mod and could spawn many times if their kings have ambition enough. This could be done without modification in future PMP.

    Army Composition
    Indian Spearmen
    Indian Longbowmen
    Indian Elephant(or other variety of them)
    Khanda Ksatriya(swordmen)
    Ghada Ksatriya(heavy macemaen)

    ...etc.

    Although I have no plan about them nearly in the future but I want to know about people interest in them or want to see them happen in the future or not. So please vote what you like.
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  2. #2
    Mathais's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    Hmm I lke it adding somtning new like this would be nice to see it would be differnt. It would put someone like me on my toes and make me more ageressive play. Plus I never really seen somthing like this in a mod where they come form the east. So yea I vote YES!

  3. #3
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    Yuezhi is by far the most historically plausible one, everything else is quite far fetched (chinese are way too fantasy, logistical problems were unsurmuntable at the time)
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  4. #4
    LucretiusTC's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    I think we could use the term "Tocharians" instead of "Yuetzi". If this Tocharian Invasion could be done, it could bring some extra action to the Bactrian, Parthian and Seleucid campaigns, when those Factions have to think about their backs against the classic threat from Central Asian nomads. Or the Seleucids can benefit them as useful allies against Parthia and Bactria.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians
    "The term Tocharians has a somewhat complicated history. It is based on the ethnonym Tokharoi (Greek Τόχαροι) used by Greek historians (e.g. Ptolemy VI, 11, 6). The first mention of the Tocharians appeared in the 1st century BC, when Strabo presented them as a Scythian tribe, and explained that the Tokharians — together with the Assianis, Passianis and Sakaraulis — took part in the destruction of the Greco-Bactrian kingdom in the second half of the 2nd century BC.[1]

    These Tocharians (Tokharoi) are identified with the Yuezhi and one of their major tribes, the Kushans. The geographical term Tokharistan usually refers to 1st millennium Bactria (Chinese Daxia 大夏)."

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Asia_001ad.jpg


    -----------------------------------------------

    Luc.

  5. #5
    Suppanut's Avatar Idea-O-Matic
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarax View Post
    Yuezhi is by far the most historically plausible one, everything else is quite far fetched (chinese are way too fantasy, logistical problems were unsurmuntable at the time)
    Chinese really historically came to Central Asia once for a reason, for horse. So they are not fantasy since it happen historically partly due to Han Wudi not so sane in the eye of confucianist as he addict to warfare and glory from it. This why chinese historian in later era called him "Wudi" warfare emperor.

    Note: In chinese history tradition, no emperor true reign name will mentioned formally in history book but royal historian will give posthemous name after emperor dead to called according to deeds and important after their reign. This is why Han Wudi call "Han Wudi" "The Warfare Emperor of Han Dynasty".
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  6. #6
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    This would mean getting rid of the roman rebels though as if you use the slave faction they would be mostly unactive...
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  7. #7
    Suppanut's Avatar Idea-O-Matic
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarax View Post
    This would mean getting rid of the roman rebels though as if you use the slave faction they would be mostly unactive...
    How about made them one part of Eastern Kingdom then?
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  8. #8
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    One thing is having scouting/trading parties, another is moving a whole army through the steppes.
    EDIT: EK could be one choice but on the other side it may upset diplomatic balances.
    Last edited by Zarax; November 24, 2008 at 10:37 AM.
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  9. #9
    Suppanut's Avatar Idea-O-Matic
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarax View Post
    One thing is having scouting/trading parties, another is moving a whole army through the steppes.
    EDIT: EK could be one choice but on the other side it may upset diplomatic balances.
    Invasion of Ferghana really happen and these mark develop heavy cavalry in China after that. Most of those who not study chinese history did not known this. Please read these...

    http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/lof...hp/t19194.html
    http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/ind...?showtopic=685
    http://www.china-history.net/han_2.htm
    http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History.../ferghana.html
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    Making them Eastern Kingdom wouldn't allow you to spawn other than by script which is known to have more issues than spawning from an event. And since they would come from the edge of the map, spawning from an event is possible.

    Expand your borders, a mod based on XGM 5.

  11. #11
    Maraxus's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    Could it be made so that when the last Eastern Kingdom City is captured that stacks of Eastern Kingdom invaders spawn in the east. Otherwise wont the invaders make a Bee line to the nearest Eastern Kingdom City?

    "Remember upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all." -Alexander the Great.

  12. #12
    Suppanut's Avatar Idea-O-Matic
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maraxus View Post
    Could it be made so that when the last Eastern Kingdom City is captured that stacks of Eastern Kingdom invaders spawn in the east. Otherwise wont the invaders make a Bee line to the nearest Eastern Kingdom City?
    Triggered once EK settlement < 1. I like this idea so.
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  13. #13
    Balikedes's Avatar Time to Rock
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    I like the idea of the Indian invasion...merely due to the fact that XGM already has ample units that can be used for it. Seems the easiest to implement and I really don't like fighting horse archers.
    Patron of Suppanut, relentless work, check it out.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    I like the idea of a Yuezhi invasion as they actually achieved something and left a lasting impact rather than the Chinese invasion which was more of a punitive raid. (There is also problems with this method, as you would need to do research, re-models, skinning, balance etc)

    However the problem with the Yuezhi is that they must be turned into a new faction for them to be effective, or be used as part of the EK which isnt too implausible but could cause problems. The maruyan incursion shouldn't be too hard, the units exist and you could possibly make like the mother-of-all garrison script's spawnable from the Indian cities at the border of the map to represent them.

    Or we could replace the Roman rebels with a new faction, but anyway I won't vote for the moment.

  15. #15
    LucretiusTC's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    I donīt want to use the Roman Rebels slot for a Tocharian/Yuezhi invasion plan, because I prefer to maintain the loyalty factor for the Romans. But maybe it could be done as a part of the Eastern Kingdoms like some of you have proposed. I leave those technical details for the experts...

    I think the Indian invasion would mainly affect to Bactrians, but the Tocharian/Yuezhi invasion could affect to both Bactrians and Parthians, and it sounds most plausible option in this timeframe. After all they ended the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom.


    Luc.



    PS. @Maraxus, I would recommend you to listen the latest AC/DC album ("Black Ice"), or Guns Nī Rosesī "Chinese Democracy" that W. Axl Rose has been doing last 15 years, if you ever get tired of Bon Jovi...at least with AC/DC you know what you get...

  16. #16
    Balikedes's Avatar Time to Rock
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    Quote Originally Posted by LucretiusTC View Post
    PS. @Maraxus, I would recommend you to listen the latest AC/DC album ("Black Ice")
    Can I get a hell yes!!! The new AC/DC album is kick-ass.
    Patron of Suppanut, relentless work, check it out.
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  17. #17
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    I voted Yuezhi, seems the most historically accurate (and well-known, and will have more impact on the East. I would just scrap the RR and use that, but maybe EK could work to...



  18. #18

    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    I think that if we have invasions from the east and make the map a little larger (going east), we should have at least one very advanced city in the India/China area. I know you can upgrade cities but in XGM the far east cities make very little money and is annoying.

    Cheers,
    Double X

  19. #19

    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    Forgetting about realism for a minute, the most exciting faction would be the Han empire as they are totally different to the other factions and it would also be pitting the two most powerful empires in the world against each other. also im bored of fighting against so many hellenic factions and ones that use lots of cavalry.
    on the subject of not being realistic i wouldnt mind the persians being ressurected either.

  20. #20
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: Poll: Threat from the east.

    There is one big problem about Han: unit/model slots.
    Having that would pretty much kill extra units for the post marian project, which is the primary focus imho.
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