fighting with less units

[aznflea]

i usually deploy the high morale, high stats stacks that are unbeatable in a frontal assault like the roman legionnaires. recently ive taken interest in heroic victories so i have to work with less units of lower quality.

the only question is how do i work with less units of lower quality?

with less units i get overrun by the enemy. they just surround and slaughter. the low quality units ensure quick routs. the only times ive won is in a defence in bases or bridges. how do the pros like severous win such decisive and HEROIC victories? ive seen his aars but i dont understand from his few explanations on how to get it.

[Calamari]

To stop yourself getting outflanked spred out your line. Against infantry armies this will be fine* because you can get more soldiers into contact and so hopefully kill more. Keep a unit in reserve just in case the line starts to falter. Keep you general close to the fighting. When defending put your cohorts on "fire at will" and watch them chew up the enemy.

*Don't spread out against cav and chariots though becasue youre line will collapse without the depth to absorb the charge.

[Silverdoomer]

@ aznflea: What units are you using, and how are you deploying them?

As Calamari said, spreading your units stops yourself getting outflanked. Keeping your general (assuming he is a cavalry unit) in reserve and sending him in when the fight gets tough on one flank tends to work (unless your sending him against spear units), then sending him round from behind and pummeling them works very well. If you use any other units, post it here so we can help some more?

Hope that helped

[aznflea]

a long line means easier to break through it. ill be using small stacks of higher tier units but i really dont think that 1 legion can hold 2 low tier units.

the strategy youre suggesting means i have to just beat them with brute force and thats exactly what i dont have when im trying to fight with less units.

btw i havent mentioned but im trying to lower my blue:red ratio bar in the prebattle screen so that i can get heroic victories more often. thats why im asking this. how to be more unit efficient

[Calamari]

a long line means easier to break through it. ill be using small stacks of higher tier units but i really dont think that 1 legion can hold 2 low tier units.

1 legionary cohort will quite happily hold 2 warbands. Unlike phalanxes, swordsmen need to be in contact with the enemy. Your superior killing power will demoralise the enemy quicker and so (in theory) route the enemy quicker. Roman soldiers have some of the best morale over all soyou don't need to worry about it. In fact if you are outnumbered you need to finish the enemy quickly because the enemy's numbers will outlast you.

Of course HA complete change the scene. They can beat most things if used right.

[Silverdoomer]

You can still use brute force with smaller armies. I tend to fight with the barbaric races i.e. the gauls, germania etc, and I find that moving the army as one and hitting one flank of the enemy with everything causes mass routing, and then I clear up with cavalry while I turn to face the enemy head-on.

My blue:red bar usually is always pretty low, and I get heroic's often on H difficulty. Your using one of the Roman Factions I take it?

[Entropy Judge]

Severous likes his cavalry; it's pretty clear when you look at the casualty totals how he gets so many kills: infantry tends to be line-holder, but his archers and cavalry usually get the most kills.
http://rtw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/f...f=10,5930,,all
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/161...battle2rx7.jpg

The first link is the campaign, the second the battle results - one general, one phalanx unit, four medium cavalry and two cavalry skirmishers. I'd also suggest looking at the unit selection for his German defense game - much of the time his kill leaders, IIRC, are the Barbarian Cavalry units.

[Selifator]

If you use horse archers or chariots you can easily use smaller armies. A combination of heavy and light cav to first take out enemy cav and then lure enemy infantry, draw them out of formation and pouncing on them is also good.

[aznflea]

that really helped alot selifator

[aznflea]

that is true but that only applies early game when the enemy is still churning out endless supply of peltasts and warbands. when they get a better unit its really hard.

let me rephrase. how would you fight an army that was equal quantity but much larger number?

[Calamari]

I take it you mean equal quality and larger numbers lol. It does complicate things.

If HA are unavailable I would make my stacks roughly 50/50 inf/cav so say 6 equites and 6 principes. Get to a hill and make sure you stay on, goad the enemy into a foght with you.

Hopefully on the battle map you have a hill to stand on, deploy as far from the front of the deployment zone as possible. This will mean that the enemy has to walk a long way uphill and get a lil tired.

Deploy your infantry about 4 ranks deep and turn on fire at will. The pilla alone can route some enemies, once the pilla have been used double click behind the enemy line to charge them down the hill into the tired and demoralised army.

As for your cav, deploy them on one flank. When the battle starts look for the enemy cav and take them out as soon as you can. Then wheel around and charge the rear of the already engaged enemy infantry and watch their line crumble. However if they have alot of missile troops it might be an idea to keep them busy, even if you only send one unit of equites to deal with them.

This could also work with phalanxes but they suffer badly when flanked which is quite likley if the enemy are more numerous.

Mercenary war elephants or a unit of mercenary hoplites could help with this though, placing the hoplites in the middle of your line. Elephants however could just charge through your own lineand into the enemy, it will only kill their men AFAIK.

Hope that helps.

[Entropy Judge]

Find a Forest. Hide *everyone* except your general in the forest; have him run the enemy ragged; when they're Tired or worse, have him run through your (hidden) lines. When the Tired/VT/Exhausted enemies finally reach your lines and are engaged by your fresh troops, they'll break very quickly. Run everyone down with one or two units of cavalry. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

Alternately: Find a large, long, gently sloping hill. Get *lots* of long-range archers (6+). Shoot to kill, use cavalry to mop up.

[mikoli]

If you wan't to get heroic victories play with Parthia,Scythia or Armenia.They all have horse archers-which have low autoresolve factor.So after confronting with any enemy you will beat them using horse archers-even legionares who have high autoresolve factor.That is the easiest way!Horse archers rule!I won 7 heroic battles with Armenian heir in 10 years and he got nickname the Mighty-with Romans I can dream about it only!

[aznflea]

heroic victories are possible with every faction, just harder with the infantry factions. theyre quite ez to get with phalanxes

[fourganger]

Depends on who you are facing really. Spreading your troops can sometimes work, but if you are facing weak troops you might find that massing your infantry together and aiming for the weak point in their lines. You'll probably rout whatever units you smash into, and among weaker troops that'll start a chain reaction.

[aznflea]

but doesnt making a long line increase the likelyhood of my units routings?

[Entropy Judge]

Making a longer, thinner line increases the chances that a powerful enemy charge will break through your line, which can increase the likelihood of a rout, but it also allows you to wrap around the enemy (if they don't have any power-charge units like heavy cav) and get flanking morale effects and kill them more quickly (due to the front-change). Personally, I prefer smaller, denser formations, but that's an attention thing more than anything else.

[aznflea]

i play mods with much higher morale meaning no more instarouts or any such rubbish in vanilla.

k, so the key to victory is a long line(unless using phalanx)

[avesta]

i play mods with much higher morale meaning no more instarouts or any such rubbish in vanilla.

k, so the key to victory is a long line(unless using phalanx)

which mods do you play?

[MABUS2012]

focus ur efforts on taking out their general and best troups and if u can use the suroundings to ur advantage maybe so u cant get flanked on one side and since u have less troups u need to use long line and dont wast much time on flankin use ur best caverly cause u need to take out as many unit in one strike as u can