Prayer

**Vladimir Lenin** · November 18, 2008, 10:49 PM

Probably one of the most key issues to religions is the idea of prayer or communication with God through prayer.

What are your views on prayer? What must one do to pray?

For me:

1. My views on prayer is that it is simply the way to communicate with God, we can communicate with God through prayer. Through prayer we beg for forgiveness, we give thanks for blessings, we ask for wisdom and to be better servants and submitters to God.

2. All one must do is make a conscious effort, one doesn't need to wash, to fast, or to do any other ritual ceremony. We can not sever the link between god and us through not having a ritual.

**Hounf of Culan** · November 18, 2008, 11:06 PM

I would agree with you in general. The only thing that bothers me is when you say we cannot ever sever the link. To a degree you are right because God is always willing to listen to us and take us back. However, it is possible to break the tie so to speak by simply not praying, not believing in God, or not praying frequently enough. If we don't put enough effort into the "conversation" then there isn't really any conversation going on between you and God.

**Dayman** · November 19, 2008, 12:19 AM

What are your views on prayer?

Pointless.

**Manoflooks** · November 19, 2008, 12:41 AM

What is the point of praying to the air?

Or praying to some guy that never seems to reply, help, or do anything.

**Yaga Shu Ra** · November 19, 2008, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Manoflooks

Or praying to some guy that never seems to reply, help, or do anything.

No no, that's already been rationalised here:

Originally Posted by Hounf of Culan

However, it is possible to break the tie so to speak by simply not praying, not believing in God, or not praying frequently enough. If we don't put enough effort into the "conversation" then there isn't really any conversation going on between you and God.

-> If prayer doesn't work, you're doing it wrong.

**Hounf of Culan** · November 19, 2008, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Yaga Shu Ra

If prayer doesn't work, you're doing it wrong.

Yah...thats what I was saying

**Tankbuster** · November 19, 2008, 02:58 PM

Waste of your time.

Originally Posted by Yaga Shu Ra

-> If prayer doesn't work, you're doing it wrong.

One of the biggest loads of bullcrap I have ever read.
Dare to repeat that, Yaga? I want to be sure you really believe it before I tear it apart.

**Yaga Shu Ra** · November 19, 2008, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Tankbuster

One of the biggest loads of bullcrap I have ever read.
Dare to repeat that, Yaga? I want to be sure you really believe it before I tear it apart.

What exactly is the relevance of knowing whether or not this is my personal belief?

**Nietzsche** · November 19, 2008, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Tankbuster

Waste of your time.

One of the biggest loads of bullcrap I have ever read.
Dare to repeat that, Yaga? I want to be sure you really believe it before I tear it apart.

What difference does it make? If the believer thinks it so, then I don't see a problem with that belief. Does it offend you? Hurt your feelings? Let's have some cultural perspective here. If someone comes from a culture (like a Muslim culture for instance where prayer is MANDATED) are you going to walk into the mosque and start urinating on the floor? No. Then try not to do that here. If you don't believe that prayer work then saying so should be enough. No need at all to take it personally. Thx

Prayer is an individual act. A choice that should be left to individuals. I don't think ridicule is a requirement towards disproving its efficacy.

**Tankbuster** · November 20, 2008, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Nietzsche

What difference does it make? If the believer thinks it so, then I don't see a problem with that belief. Does it offend you? Hurt your feelings? Let's have some cultural perspective here. If someone comes from a culture (like a Muslim culture for instance where prayer is MANDATED) are you going to walk into the mosque and start urinating on the floor? No. Then try not to do that here. If you don't believe that prayer work then saying so should be enough. No need at all to take it personally. Thx

You're right.
I apologise for overreacting.

However...

Originally Posted by Yaga Shu Ra

What exactly is the relevance of knowing whether or not this is my personal belief?

I do believe that the view you propogate has a high degree of arrogance.
It implies that prayer is a 100% sure to work, as long as you do it right. And that is a kick in the nuts to the billions of people around the globe praying many times a day, often for very basic things, like food, water, the right to live, freedom of speech, safety, a small house, a baby that stays alive.... And every day millions of people don't get drinkable water, starve to death, lose their children to diseases, freeze to death at night, get executed for their convictions, get killed in accidents, etcetear.
Your comment to the woman whose baby starved to death: "If your prayers didn't work, you're doing it wrong."

And that's what I find insulting. I think at least a little bit more responsiblity and humbliness for what your god induces would be more appropriate, instead of saying "god is doing everything right, you're just doing things wrong".

But as Nietzsche said, whatever helps you sleep at night is fine with me.
Just don't expect my respect for it.

And that's way I end my 1500th post

**Gaidin** · November 19, 2008, 11:04 AM

It's a one way conversation. One way conversations are pointless.

**Spider** · November 19, 2008, 11:14 AM

And they call me crazy for talking to myself...at least I always get a response! /laughs

Prayer is what you make it; as with many things.

A better investment of your time (I would think) would be to talk to close friends about the problems you face and then contemplate their root causes through introspect after.

**Morlam** · November 19, 2008, 12:30 PM

It's the best and fastest way to get say, a new car... a firmer bossom... a raise....

**Beanbee** · November 19, 2008, 05:20 PM

Pray is a useful way to vent, to ask questions you may have, to be grateful for whatever your happy about. Whatever you think, it gets whats important to you on your mind so you can subconciously process it at various stages of sleep. I think that is something we can agree on wether Aethist of Monothegic.

**Time Commander Bob** · November 20, 2008, 11:18 AM

If there is a God, prayer seems meaningless to me. Such a God that is proclaimed by Abrahamic religions is described as omniscient and therefore he knows your mind and everything inside of it, which includes thoughts, desires and beliefs.

If there is no God prayer is obviously meaningless.

**Rich86** · November 20, 2008, 01:03 PM

No reason to believe it works. If people want to pray fine - but there's nothing to suggest it's a 'direct line' to God.

**ZayanK** · November 20, 2008, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Arian the Heretic

What are your views on prayer?

The very proof that mankind has some serious schizophrenia.

**Demokritos** · November 20, 2008, 02:21 PM

Whether we believe in the existence of a God or not, there may be at least one point with prayers. As Time Commander Bob said, if there is a God and he is omniscient, then he would know what we want and need before we pray about it. So in this respect, it would be pointless. But the prayer may still have some use, if done "properly", since it may help us come in the right state of mind to deal with whatever situation we find ourselves in as good as possible. And the proper way, I would guess, is to be found somewhere along the way which Jesus of Nazareth pointed out, when he gave us "Our Father". If prayers conducted in this way are conducive to better frames of mind, then both Theists and Atheists alike might have use for them.

To pray in any other way is, if I understand Jesus of Nazareth's directions correctly, not such a good idea. The question is why. Why not pray for specific things, things other than those covered in "Our Father", unselfish things like those Tankbuster mentioned? Here we probably enter the age old field of enquiry into the meaning of life. As far as I can see, no satisfactory answer can ever be found to that question as long as we hold on to the current Western materialistic world view, which I call "the Parenthesis Theory of Life". If we're open to other world views, however, like the one Jesus of Nazareth seems to hold (according to the Bible), or the one I sketched out in PowerWizard's thread The Meaning of Life earlier in this forum, more sense could be brought into the picture. But then the question pops up what empirical data do we have for supporting a different world view. That's just too big a question to go into here.