View Poll Results: Does the nazi swastika smybolize nazism, violence, racial supremacy and the promotion of Holocaust? Does its public (non-scientific, non-art, non-informative) usage create an intimidating, offensive, or hostile environment?

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  • Yes and Yes.

    86 45.74%
  • Yes and No.

    75 39.89%
  • No and No. (Because I missed my history lessons.)

    27 14.36%
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Thread: the NAZI swastika thread

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  1. #1

    Icon1 the NAZI swastika thread

    This thread is not about the swastika in general, but about the nazi swastika in particular. The one which is banned in many countries of the world, most prominently in Germany and many other countries in Europe, and in the world. For a good reason. What do you think? Should its public usage be prohibited?


    In the wake of widespread popular usage, the Nazi Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP) formally adopted the swastika (in German: Hakenkreuz (hook-cross)) in 1920. This was used on the party's flag (right), badge, and armband. It had also been used unofficially by its predecessor, the German Workers Party, Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (DAP).[citation needed]
    In his 1925 work Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler wrote that:
    I myself, meanwhile, after innumerable attempts, had laid down a final form; a flag with a red background, a white disk, and a black swastika in the middle. After long trials I also found a definite proportion between the size of the flag and the size of the white disk, as well as the shape and thickness of the swastika.
    When Hitler created a flag for the Nazi Party, he sought to incorporate both the swastika and "those revered colors expressive of our homage to the glorious past and which once brought so much honor to the German nation." (Red, white, and black were the colors of the flag of the old German Empire.) He also stated: "As National Socialists, we see our program in our flag. In red, we see the social idea of the movement; in white, the nationalistic idea; in the swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work, which as such always has been and always will be anti-Semitic."[52]
    The swastika was also understood as "the symbol of the creating, acting life" (das Symbol des schaffenden, wirkenden Lebens) and as "race emblem of Germanism" (Rasseabzeichen des Germanentums) [53].
    The use of the swastika was associated by Nazi theorists with their conjecture of Aryan cultural descent of the German people. Following the Nordicist version of the Aryan invasion theory, the Nazis claimed that the early Aryans of India, from whose Vedic tradition the swastika sprang, were the prototypical white invaders. It was also widely believed that the Indian caste system had originated as a means to avoid racial mixing.[citation needed] The concept of Racial purity was an ideology central to Nazism, even though it is now considered unscientific. For Rosenberg, the Aryans of India were both a model to be imitated and a warning of the dangers of the spiritual and racial "confusion" that, he believed, arose from the close proximity of races. Thus, they saw fit to co-opt the sign as a symbol of the Aryan master race. The use of the swastika as a symbol of the Aryan race dates back to writings of Emile Burnouf. Following many other writers, the German nationalist poet Guido von List believed it to be a uniquely Aryan symbol.

    On March 14, 1933, shortly after Hitler's appointment as Chancellor of Germany, the NSDAP flag was hoisted alongside Germany's national colors. It was adopted as the sole national flag on September 15, 1935 (see Nazi Germany).
    The swastika was used for badges and flags throughout Nazi Germany, particularly for government and military organizations, but also for "popular" organizations such as the Reichsbund Deutsche Jägerschaft (German Hunting Society).[55
    Last edited by Aldgarkalaughskel; November 24, 2008 at 04:22 AM. Reason: typos

  2. #2
    C-Rob's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    Specifically a black swastika within a white circle all on a red flag? i could live with that.

  3. #3
    Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    ^^I can top that, I dont care if an exception is suposingly declining my freedom of speech.....never again.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  4. #4
    Lord de Lyonesse's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    ^^I can top that, I dont care if an exception is suposingly declining my freedom of speech.....never again.


    The trouble is that the politics concealed within that flag, the ideology doesnt need a flag. All it needs is some nutjobs to believe in the things it preaches and a new name under a new flag you got the same thing apart from sold in a different package.


    In my age fascism will probably always exist and as long as people have the ability of free speech (which in my opinion every democracy should have) it will continue to spread as you cannot convict someone by simply displaying the political preferance as then your just as bad as them...
    GSTK: Richard Trevelyan [47] - Lord of Lyonesse


  5. #5
    Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    @EmpRichard

    Quote:The trouble is that the politics concealed within that flag, the ideology doesnt need a flag. All it needs is some nutjobs to believe in the things it preaches and a new name under a new flag you got the same thing apart from sold in a different package.

    True, but the problem is that the damn thing is a obvious insult on humanity in its hole, it represents everything evil mankind is able to "accomplish". Not to forget, many victims are still alive today, as if they went through enough allready.


    In my age fascism will probably always exist and as long as people have the ability of free speech (which in my opinion every democracy should have) it will continue to spread as you cannot convict someone by simply displaying the political preferance as then your just as bad as them...

    Its not about a "political preference", its about representing hate, the call for fascist violence and racist intollerance. If you think: hey the guy might be Indian and means a totally different thing, look again an Indian Swastika is reversed. You can have free-speech and make a few exceptions wich are obviously easy to understand for anyone with 2 braincells. Like modern Germany is a fascist state again.

    btw.Anyone showing up in my neighberhood showing up with the damn thing, will get a hard time to get out alive. Call us/them "just the same" but common sence is ing self defence.
    Last edited by Thorn777; November 19, 2008 at 04:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  6. #6
    Henry of Grosmont's Avatar Clockwork Angel
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    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    People keep ignoring or not understanding the question. Yet, they have their opinion. Mystery...

  7. #7
    Acco's Avatar Дијана
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    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    What do you think? Should its public usage be prohibited?
    My answer once again is no. I also see you chose to skip the parts of the article that conflict with your views. Hitler was inspired to create the Nazi flag by the Thule Society, which was a nationalist movement. The Aryan motive to the Nazi swastika came later and was introduced by the Order of the New Templars, not Hitler or Nazism.

    And besides, the Nazi swastika is an ideological mark and the followers of this ideology (and any ideology) have rights and are allowed to express it. It's just a symbol and I can't think of any possible ways it could offend, when I see it I just think of the Second World War and Nazi Germany, not racism or anything like that.

  8. #8

    Icon1 Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    I find it amusing when people post with their alts, anyway...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acco View Post
    My answer once again is no. I also see you chose to skip the parts of the article that conflict with your views. Hitler was inspired to create the Nazi flag by the Thule Society, which was a nationalist movement. The Aryan motive to the Nazi swastika came later and was introduced by the Order of the New Templars, not Hitler or Nazism.
    I skipped the parts that were irrelevant to the initial question. Big difference, pal. Just like it is irrelevant what you say about the past of the symbol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acco View Post
    And besides, the Nazi swastika is an ideological mark and the followers of this ideology (and any ideology) have rights and are allowed to express it. It's just a symbol and I can't think of any possible ways it could offend, when I see it I just think of the Second World War and Nazi Germany, not racism or anything like that.
    So Nazism wasn't racist? You have a lot to learn.

  9. #9
    Acco's Avatar Дијана
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    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    So Nazism wasn't racist? You have a lot to learn.
    Well yes, in the poll I would've voted 'yes and no' because people of the Nazi ideology tend to support just for racism. However I don't think it creates a harmful enviroment, I mean, when you view it what happens to you? I just see a flag and ponder about World War 2, the same can be said for a Communist symbol except Communism wasn't really racist. Why am I an 'alt'?

  10. #10

    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    It is a historical symbol and I am not supporting on such lame nanny-state prohibitions.


  11. #11

    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread


  12. #12
    Bovril's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    That the nazi swastica symbolises nazism is a tautology, so yes to the first question. For the second question there should be a 'sometimes, can you be more specific' option. As for the third question in the body of the OP, no, the swastica, nazi or otherwise, should not be banned. We have a ban on hate speech and that deals with innapropriate use of the swastica already.

  13. #13

    Icon1 Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovril View Post
    That the nazi swastica symbolises nazism is a tautology, so yes to the first question.
    Shocking or not, this is not obvious for some people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celsius View Post
    Most people seem to forget that the swatika was really a religious symbol and not a hate sign.
    That's why this thread is only about the nazi swastika.

  14. #14

    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    Most people seem to forget that the swatika was really a religious symbol and not a hate sign.

  15. #15

    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    this is the thread i want

  16. #16
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    yes it is meant to intimidate yet we cannot take away someones right to free speech just because we don't like it.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  17. #17
    nate895's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    The swastika should not be banned because many Native American tribe use it as well, in the same form, as a good luck charm on dwellings.

  18. #18

    Icon1 Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    The swastika should not be banned because many Native American tribe use it as well, in the same form, as a good luck charm on dwellings.



    Have you even read the question and the OP, nate? This is not about the swastika in general, but about the NAZI swastika. Detail is everything.

  19. #19
    nate895's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post


    Have you even read the question and the OP, nate? This is not about the swastika in general, but about the NAZI swastika. Detail is everything.
    1) Who is to determine the difference?

    2) The swastika as a political symbol might be offensive, but when you live in a free society, you have to deal with the crap of some morons too.

  20. #20

    Icon1 Re: the NAZI swastika thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    1) Who is to determine the difference?
    Just look at them, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    2) The swastika as a political symbol might be offensive, but when you live in a free society, you have to deal with the crap of some morons too.
    No, I don't. Especially if they threaten to overthrow the current political system I live in.

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