Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 43

Thread: 10 Conservative Rules

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default 10 Conservative Rules

    These rules, by Thomas Sowell, is what seperates the right from the left. the right from the wrong.

    1. The conservative believes that there exists an enduring moral order. That order is made for man, and man is made for it: human nature is a constant, and moral truths are permanent.

    This word order signifies harmony. There are two aspects of order: the inner order of the soul, and the outer order of the commonwealth. Twenty-five centuries ago, Plato taught this doctrine, but even the educated nowadays find it difficult to understand. The problem of order has been a principal concern of conservatives ever since conservative became a term of politics.

    2. The conservative adheres to custom, convention, and continuity… Custom enables people to live together peaceably. Convention permits us to avoid perpetual disputes about rights and duties: law at base is a body of conventions.

    3. Conservatives believe in the principle of prescription. We are dwarfs on the shoulders of giants, able to see farther than our ancestors only because of the great stature of those who have preceded us. Thus, the emphasis on prescription and on those things established by immemorial usage, by the establishment of precedent, including rights to property.

    4. Conservatives value prudence as a principle. Burke agrees with Plato that in the statesman, prudence is chief among virtues. Any public measure ought to be judged by its probable long-run consequences, not merely by temporary advantage or popularity. Liberals and radicals are imprudent. They dash at their objectives without heed to the risk of new abuses worse than the evils they hope to sweep away .

    5. Conservatives cherish variety. They feel affection for the proliferating intricacy of long-established social institutions and modes of life, as distinguished from the narrowing uniformity and deadening egalitarianism of radical systems. For the preservation of a healthy diversity in any civilization, there must survive orders and classes, differences in material condition, and many sorts of inequality. The only true forms of equality are equality at the Last Judgment and equality before a just court of law. All other attempts at leveling lead to social stagnation.

    6. Man is imperfect. Thus no perfect social order ever can be created. Because of human restlessness, mankind would grow rebellious under any utopian domination, and would break out once more in violent discontent or else expire of boredom. To seek for utopia is to end in disaster. In a tolerably ordered, just, and free society, some evils, maladjustments, and suffering will continue to lurk. Prudent reform permits us to preserve and improve this tolerable order. If the old institutional and moral safeguards of a nation are neglected, then the anarchic impulse in humankind breaks loose: “the ceremony of innocence is drowned.”

    7. Conservatives are persuaded that freedom and property are closely linked. Separate property from private possession, and Leviathan becomes master of all. Upon the foundation of private property, great civilizations are built. The more widespread is the possession of private property, the more stable and productive is a commonwealth. Economic leveling, conservatives maintain, is not economic progress. Getting and spending are not the chief aims of human existence. A sound economic basis for the person, the family, and the commonwealth is desirable.

    8. Conservatives uphold voluntary community, quite as they oppose involuntary collectivism. Although Americans have been attached strongly to privacy and private rights, they also have been a people conspicuous for their spirit of community. In a genuine community, the decisions most directly affecting the lives of citizens are made locally and voluntarily. Some of these functions are carried out by local political bodies, others by private associations: so long as they are kept local, and are marked by the general agreement of those affected, they constitute healthy community. But when these functions pass by default or usurpation to centralized authority, then community is in serious danger.

    9. The conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human passions. Politically speaking, power is the ability to do as one likes, regardless of the wills of one’s fellows. A state in which an individual or a small group are able to dominate the wills of their fellows without check is a despotism, whether it is called monarchical or aristocratic or democratic . When every person claims to be a power unto himself, then society falls into anarchy.

    10. Conservatives understand that permanence and change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society. The conservative is not opposed to social improvement, although he doubts whether there is any such force as a mystical Progress at work in the world. When a society is progressing in some respects, usually it is declining in other respects. The conservative knows that any healthy society is influenced by two forces, which Samuel Taylor Coleridge called its Permanence and its Progression.

  2. #2

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Still posting other people's work again?
    Hammer & Sickle - Karacharovo

    And I drank it strait down.

  3. #3

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    yup, its too hard to rewrite that in my own words here at work

  4. #4
    nate895's Avatar Tiro
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    247

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    I consider myself a conservative with libertarian-leanings. These rules apply to my core beliefs, the only question I might ask is whether some of them the government enforces. All of these values are great things, but only small local governments or institutions (as mentioned in number) should have any ability whatsoever to enforce them, and people should always have the ability to go places and disregard all moral values, otherwise communities of moral people will wind up being destroyed by the underground of immoral people who disregard the values of the culture.

  5. #5

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Those rules only apply to the conservative peons, not the leaders, right? Nice ideals, but ignore the inevitable trickle-down of greed & corruption and you get...well, just wait 20 years and read the history books covering 2000 - 2008.
    Giving tax breaks to the wealthy, is like giving free dessert coupons to the morbidly obese.

    IDIOT BASTARD SON of MAVERICK

  6. #6
    nate895's Avatar Tiro
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    247

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by chamaeleo View Post
    Those rules only apply to the conservative peons, not the leaders, right? Nice ideals, but ignore the inevitable trickle-down of greed & corruption and you get...well, just wait 20 years and read the history books covering 2000 - 2008.
    George Bush is not a conservative. We haven't had a truly conservative President since Andrew Jackson, and his ideas were flawed in that they didn't extend to other races.

    A truly conservative United States would see a weak Federal government, really just a facilitator for the common defense of the 50 states, and local governing authorities (states and downward, mostly downward) making decisions. You can have socialism (i.e. liberal) in a conservative state, as long as it doesn't leave the confines of one state and force it upon the other localities. The difference between a small government conservative society with a slight libertarian leaning and a socialist society, is in a small, local government society, socialism can exist at some level, as long as it is not the central governing authority, but in a socialist society you cannot have a conservative locality.

  7. #7
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Сомбор, Serbien, Europe
    Posts
    583

    Default George W. Bush

    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    George Bush is not a conservative. We haven't had a truly conservative President since Andrew Jackson, and his ideas were flawed in that they didn't extend to other races.
    Maybe he is, but his advisers/environment are (disgusting) neocons .
    United Soviet States of America
    form of government - financial dictatorship

    Liberalism is a mental illness!

  8. #8
    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    18,577

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    George Bush is not a conservative. We haven't had a truly conservative President since Andrew Jackson, and his ideas were flawed in that they didn't extend to other races.

    A truly conservative United States would see a weak Federal government, really just a facilitator for the common defense of the 50 states, and local governing authorities (states and downward, mostly downward) making decisions. You can have socialism (i.e. liberal) in a conservative state, as long as it doesn't leave the confines of one state and force it upon the other localities. The difference between a small government conservative society with a slight libertarian leaning and a socialist society, is in a small, local government society, socialism can exist at some level, as long as it is not the central governing authority, but in a socialist society you cannot have a conservative locality.
    But Jackson was a populist. Most of the country was still agriculture oriented. He was a slave owning Southern farmer -- as such he opposed the National Bank, import tariffs, and government officials holding life tenure. He was very suspicious of manufacturing interests in general. More than any previous president, he sought the popular vote. A true conservative does not simply go after the popular vote, but will take some stands on ethical and moral positions even when not popular.

  9. #9
    nate895's Avatar Tiro
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    247

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking Prince View Post
    But Jackson was a populist. Most of the country was still agriculture oriented. He was a slave owning Southern farmer -- as such he opposed the National Bank, import tariffs, and government officials holding life tenure. He was very suspicious of manufacturing interests in general. More than any previous president, he sought the popular vote. A true conservative does not simply go after the popular vote, but will take some stands on ethical and moral positions even when not popular.
    All the things he did (with the exception of stopping South Carolina's nullification) were conservative. He may have been a populist, but the populous at the time was overwhelmingly conservative. They were small, local government kind of people, and that is what conservatism is about in America.

  10. #10
    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    18,577

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    All the things he did (with the exception of stopping South Carolina's nullification) were conservative. He may have been a populist, but the populous at the time was overwhelmingly conservative. They were small, local government kind of people, and that is what conservatism is about in America.
    And thus ignoring my last point:

    A true conservative does not simply go after the popular vote, but will take some stands on ethical and moral positions even when not popular.

    All politicians in the early 1800's are conservative by contemporary standards. In his time, Jackson was considered a populist and definitely not a protector of contract law or property when merchant interests were at stake. This is why he opposed a central bank and why the established interests opposed him from both parties. These points are not those of a conservative.

  11. #11

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Chamaeleo Bush ran as a conservative but his actions prove him to be otherwise.

  12. #12
    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    18,577

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    So where odes Pickle_mole stand on this issue. Btw -- I have no substantial problem with the broad definitions in Thomas Sowell's guidlines. I hope that nobody will interpret this as a statement on either party nor on their leadrship though. We a just talking about a guide to decide which side of the center people stand on. Right?

  13. #13

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Yep. I dont fully understand your question Mr. Prince when you ask "where do i stand"?

  14. #14
    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    18,577

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickle_mole View Post
    Yep. I dont fully understand your question Mr. Prince when you ask "where do i stand"?
    Well .... You started this thread with a copy job and no input as to where you stand on the topic or why the Sowell work was posted. Just want to know where you stand.

    btw -- not Mr. -- way too formal even if my avatar is a b&w photo of a 19th century economist.

  15. #15

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    i love your avatar it reminds me of a muppet. i believe that the 10 rules as stated are the most correct views about governance and society.

    Number six, mans imperfection, is my favorite. I wouldnt go say our "greedy" nature is inherintly wrong because if we didnt have it we would still be content without games like total war. (Yes there are FAR better examples but i mean thats what brought us to this site right ). i think liberals are stuck in the belief that if you give man all he wants he will stop asking for more. man will never be full and if he is, he will stagnate and die.

    on a liter note i read a sci fi short storie where a revolutionary is fighting for a utopian government ( a lenin like figure) and he captured and wakes up in a beautiful house. He looks around and sees this house and knows he was captured by the rich he was fighting and is enraged at the lady before him. They talk back and forth and they take him on a flight over a warm area, like north africa, and he sees the people below and says how its a shame how the poor have to live in hot areas to aviod the heat costs of winter. The lady touring him says no one is poor and you revolution suceed and that its something like 200 years in the future. at first he ecstatic when he hears this but the lady tells him how no one is inventing or creating or learning since there is no strife or competition. the scientists ar no more but there are plenty of artists. and the ending is so sweet. anyone ever read anything like that?

  16. #16

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    So, I'm confused...what's the point in calling yourself "Conservative" if the term is antiquated, irrelevant, misleading, idealistic, and useless? Unless it's an easily recognized and useful buzzword, of course. OK, I get it now.

    I find most labels pretty useless in general.
    Giving tax breaks to the wealthy, is like giving free dessert coupons to the morbidly obese.

    IDIOT BASTARD SON of MAVERICK

  17. #17
    nate895's Avatar Tiro
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    247

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by chamaeleo View Post
    So, I'm confused...what's the point in calling yourself "Conservative" if the term is antiquated, irrelevant, misleading, idealistic, and useless? Unless it's an easily recognized and useful buzzword, of course. OK, I get it now.

    I find most labels pretty useless in general.
    I am going to guess you are asking why Bush or any other modern Republican calls themselves conservative. The reason is to get the conservative vote in the primaries (with the exception of Ron Paul, and a few governors maybe, who are actually conservative). The candidate then wins through a bunch of lies in the primaries, and then move to the "center" and says that if the conservatives don't vote for him then the Democrat, who is ten times worse (what can be worse than a liar and a cheat who will only get you blamed when his big government policies fail?), will win and the country will go to hell in a hand basket.

  18. #18

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    I am going to guess you are asking why Bush or any other modern Republican calls themselves conservative. The reason is to get the conservative vote in the primaries (with the exception of Ron Paul, and a few governors maybe, who are actually conservative). The candidate then wins through a bunch of lies in the primaries, and then move to the "center" and says that if the conservatives don't vote for him then the Democrat, who is ten times worse (what can be worse than a liar and a cheat who will only get you blamed when his big government policies fail?), will win and the country will go to hell in a hand basket.
    Obviously!

    So, if modern US Conservatives are not really conservative, what do you propose we call them? Feel free to segregate, recategorize, sort and reclassify into any number of new classifications as you see fit...
    Giving tax breaks to the wealthy, is like giving free dessert coupons to the morbidly obese.

    IDIOT BASTARD SON of MAVERICK

  19. #19
    nate895's Avatar Tiro
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    247

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by chamaeleo View Post
    Obviously!

    So, if modern US Conservatives are not really conservative, what do you propose we call them? Feel free to segregate, recategorize, sort and reclassify into any number of new classifications as you see fit...
    We call them, most of them at least, neocons. Their movement popped up in the late 1950s, and they are former socialists who realized they could get richer if they instead of stealing from the rich to give to the poor, that they should steal from the poor to give to the rich. This is called "corporate welfare" the most obvious example was the recent $700B bailout. They also do this by miring us into various wars overseas. There are people in between neocon and true conservative (paleocon), these people are for wars, but against all forms of welfare. Their policies contradict each other.

    However, most of the rank and file in the conservative movement do have natural conservative instincts, it is just that they have been mislead by the "follow the leader" mentality post-9/11.

  20. #20
    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    18,577

    Default Re: 10 Conservative Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    We call them, most of them at least, neocons. Their movement popped up in the late 1950s, and they are former socialists who realized they could get richer if they instead of stealing from the rich to give to the poor, that they should steal from the poor to give to the rich. This is called "corporate welfare" the most obvious example was the recent $700B bailout. They also do this by miring us into various wars overseas. There are people in between neocon and true conservative (paleocon), these people are for wars, but against all forms of welfare. Their policies contradict each other.

    However, most of the rank and file in the conservative movement do have natural conservative instincts, it is just that they have been mislead by the "follow the leader" mentality post-9/11.
    Perhaps you should reserve neocons for newly converted to conservatism --- like Democrats that have changed parties because either they feel the party has left them or that they have fundmentally changed themselves.

    Just a suggestion.

    Regards.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •