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  1. #1

    Default US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    WASHINGTON - The U.S. military in Iraq is abandoning - deliberately and with little public notice - a centerpiece of the widely acclaimed strategy it adopted nearly two years ago to turn the tide against the insurgency. It is moving American troops farther from the people they are trying to protect.
    Starting in early 2007, with Iraq on the brink of all-out civil war, the troops were pushed into the cities and villages as part of a change in strategy that included President Bush's decision to send more combat forces.
    The bigger U.S. presence on the streets was credited by many with allowing the Americans and their Iraqi security partners to build trust among the populace, thus undermining the extremists' tactics of intimidation, reducing levels of violence and giving new hope to resolving the country's underlying political conflicts.
    Now the Americans are reversing direction, consolidating in larger bases outside the cities and leaving security in the hands of the Iraqis while remaining within reach to respond as the Iraqi forces require.
    The U.S. is on track to complete its shift out of all Iraqi cities by June 2009. That is one of the milestones in a political-military campaign plan devised in 2007 by Gen. David Petraeus, when he was the top U.S. commander in Iraq, and his political partner in Baghdad, Ambassador Ryan Crocker. The goal also is in a preliminary security pact with the Iraqi government on the future U.S. military presence.
    The shift is not explicitly linked to U.S. plans for increasing its military presence in Afghanistan, but there is an important connection: The logistical resources needed to house and supply a larger and more distributed U.S. force in Afghanistan have been tied up in Iraq. To some extent that will be relieved with the consolidation of U.S. forces in Iraq onto larger, outlying bases that are easier to maintain.
    These moves coincide with priorities expressed by President-elect Obama during his campaign: reducing the U.S. military commitment in Iraq and putting more resources into Afghanistan. It also fits with Petraeus' view that a more robust counterinsurgency approach is needed in Afghanistan, meaning not only a larger number of troops but also getting them spread out into more villages.
    But it also points up a major gamble in Iraq - namely, that the Iraqis are ready to handle the insurgency themselves.
    Stephen Biddle, a senior fellow for defense policy at the Council on Foreign Relations and an occasional adviser to Petraeus, is among those who worry about the consequences of excluding U.S. forces from the cities.
    "It gets us out of the way" should Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki decide to use Iraqi security forces to crush the U.S.-allied Sunni neighborhood militia groups who have been instrumental in attacking extremist elements of the insurgency, Biddle said in an e-mail exchange. Al-Maliki sees those militiamen, whom the U.S. has dubbed "Sons of Iraq," as an internal threat to Shiite political predominance.
    Biddle said that on balance he believes the risks are more likely to outweigh the benefits of sticking to the June goal.
    Retired Army Col. Peter Mansoor, who served as Petraeus' right-hand man in Baghdad during the U.S. troop buildup and has written a book, "Baghdad at Sunrise," about the counterinsurgency effort, also has misgivings. He said in an e-mail exchange Tuesday that his main concern is sectarian violence.
    "Without U.S. forces in the cities, the Shiite and Sunni militias could once again take to fighting each other without an honest broker to keep the peace," he said. "The Iraqi army is not ready to play this role, in my view - not yet, anyway."
    Ready or not, U.S. commanders are marching steadily in that direction - and not just in Baghdad.
    Brig. Gen. Martin Post, deputy commander of U.S. forces in western Iraq, where the Sunni insurgency has sharply abated - if not almost disappeared - since 2007, said Monday his outfit is shutting down the U.S. base at Fallujah. The U.S. headquarters elements there are moving to al-Asad air base, a large but remote facility in the vast desert halfway between Fallujah and the Syrian border.
    "There's been a big effort to move all the Marine forces out of the cities," Post said in a videoconference with reporters at the Pentagon. "And so as you go throughout, from Fallujah all the way up the Euphrates River Valley, up to al-Qaim - where we used to have Marines actually living in the cities - we've pulled them all out."


    I find it a little funny that although this pullout is deliberate and part of our strategy, we are still "abandoning" the cities, not pulling out. Anyways, kind of looks like our strategy is going back to that of 2005.

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    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; November 12, 2008 at 03:05 PM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Good news indeed!

    I don't think the word "abandon" is appropriate here at all. Unless our invasion was based on conquering and controlling Iraq indefinately, withdrawing to our bases, and then soon withdrawing from the country entirely, is part of the process.

    You imply that by returning to a status akin to 2005 this is a negative thing.
    I would offer it is now a different thing because the circumstances are radically different...Obama (with his promise to leave) as President....the Iraqi security forces MUCH stronger....and the large sunni population now helping the government vs helping the insurgents.

    There is also the matter of the UN mandate which is soon to expire. After which, our presence in Iraq will become VERY unpopular.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikelus Trento View Post
    Good news indeed!

    I don't think the word "abandon" is appropriate here at all. Unless our invasion was based on conquering and controlling Iraq indefinately, withdrawing to our bases, and then soon withdrawing from the country entirely, is part of the process.

    You imply that by returning to a status akin to 2005 this is a negative thing.
    I would offer it is now a different thing because the circumstances are radically different...Obama (with his promise to leave) as President.
    Obama had nothing to do with this.

  4. #4

    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jin View Post
    Obama had nothing to do with this.
    Now now dont be insulting the messiah now by suggesting something he had nothing to do with didnt happen because of him. I imagine 100 years from now *if* Iraq is some safe, rich, secure nation history will go on and on how the godking Obama brought it about.

  5. #5

    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Now now dont be insulting the messiah now by suggesting something he had nothing to do with didnt happen because of him. I imagine 100 years from now *if* Iraq is some safe, rich, secure nation history will go on and on how the godking Obama brought it about.
    It won't take a 100 years. Obama will get all the credit for things that were pre-determined before he was elected, such as this decrease in troop strength, and the already set sight of disengaging from the war. But the everyday slob won't understand that and will just see obama take office in January and troop withdrawal that's already been taking place for the last year or more as his success. Yay, for slobs.

  6. #6

    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberius Tosi View Post
    I find it a little funny that although this pullout is deliberate and part of our strategy, we are still "abandoning" the cities, not pulling out. Anyways, kind of looks like our strategy is going back to that of 2005.
    How is it abandoning them? The whole part of the surge was to provide time for the Iraqis, its been what nearly a year now of peace and stability (atleast compared to HOW it was). The US has been turning over control of provinces one by one over the months this is just a continuation of THAT not of going back to 2005 strategy.

  7. #7

    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Is it something like 15 of the 18(?) Iraqi provinces have been returned to Iraqi control already?

    edit: 13 of 18 have been returned to Iraqi control. The ones that have not been are Baghdad and those along the direct routes to Syria and Iran.
    Last edited by Mikelus Trento; November 12, 2008 at 10:09 AM.
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  8. #8
    Philos Sophos's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Heh,Iraq is soon going to be a Taliban republic after the U.S troops leave,I don't think the Iraqis could defend theirselves against the insurgents...like look at them,everytime something happens they all the Americans.

    But anyways,I hope because of that our handful of troops may leave that crap hole and come home...


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  9. #9
    The King Of Peasants's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Heh,Iraq is soon going to be a Taliban republic after the U.S troops leave,I don't think the Iraqis could defend theirselves against the insurgents...like look at them,everytime something happens they all the Americans.
    Heh, its odd this didn't happen awhile ago now that we only have a presence in 5 of 13 provinces.

    The writer of this article seems to have had his head in the sand for the last year or so this isn't abandoning the cities this is how we get out of Iraq.
    "July 14, 2008: I think this is a case where Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are fundamentally sound. They're not in danger of going under. They're not the best investment these days from a long term standpoint going back. I think they are in good shape going forward. They're in the housing market. I do think their prospects going forward are very solid."
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    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by The King Of Peasants View Post
    Heh, its odd this didn't happen awhile ago now that we only have a presence in 5 of 13 provinces.

    The writer of this article seems to have had his head in the sand for the last year or so this isn't abandoning the cities this is how we get out of Iraq.
    Could not have said it better myself.
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    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by The King Of Peasants View Post
    Heh, its odd this didn't happen awhile ago now that we only have a presence in 5 of 13 provinces.

    The writer of this article seems to have had his head in the sand for the last year or so this isn't abandoning the cities this is how we get out of Iraq.
    You do have presence in Iraq, lets see what will happen when the US will leave completely. Easy prey to Iran.
    Last edited by Phileas Fogg; November 14, 2008 at 04:43 AM.

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    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by Phileas Fogg View Post
    You do have presence in Iraq, lets see what will happen when the US will leave completely. Easy prey to Iran.
    A target for Iran yes, but by no means easy, the Sunnis and Kurds are a powerful block, and they don't really like Iran. The Saudis wouldn't take it kindly to any Iranian influence either. The worse that could happen after the US leaves is a full fledged civil war, with both the Saudis and Iranians supporting their favored side.

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    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by fieldmarshal View Post
    A target for Iran yes, but by no means easy, the Sunnis and Kurds are a powerful block, and they don't really like Iran. The Saudis wouldn't take it kindly to any Iranian influence either. The worse that could happen after the US leaves is a full fledged civil war, with both the Saudis and Iranians supporting their favored side.
    I don't expect Iran to go and try occupy all Iraq, more like the Shiite part of it.
    Last edited by Phileas Fogg; November 14, 2008 at 11:15 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerd von Rundstedt View Post
    Heh,Iraq is soon going to be a Taliban republic after the U.S troops leave,I don't think the Iraqis could defend theirselves against the insurgents...like look at them,everytime something happens they all the Americans.

    But anyways,I hope because of that our handful of troops may leave that crap hole and come home...
    You mean despite the fact it hasnt happened yet and that in the provinces handed over that the US has pulled out of the Iraqis have indeed done their job. No one can predict the long term outcome of Iraq but its safe the say a society that isnt religious fantastics isnt likely to turn into "Taliban" like.

  15. #15
    Philos Sophos's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    You mean despite the fact it hasnt happened yet and that in the provinces handed over that the US has pulled out of the Iraqis have indeed done their job. No one can predict the long term outcome of Iraq but its safe the say a society that isnt religious fantastics isnt likely to turn into "Taliban" like.
    Well,if it doesn't turn into a "Taliban" like country,it will sure be a ed up one.There are 2 choices:a)It will be a proper nation or b)It will be a country like...well...Afganistan...


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    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerd von Rundstedt View Post
    Heh,Iraq is soon going to be a Taliban republic after the U.S troops leave,I don't think the Iraqis could defend theirselves against the insurgents...like look at them,everytime something happens they all the Americans.
    Ummm....

    Iraqis aren't really that religious.

    Furthermore, the Taliban were Sunni, the majority of Iraqis are Shi'ite.

    Finally, it won't be like Iran, because Grand Ayatollah Sistani opposes the idea of rule by jurors and he is the leader of the Shi'ite community.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

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  17. #17

    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Now now dont be insulting the messiah now by suggesting something he had nothing to do with didnt happen because of him. I imagine 100 years from now *if* Iraq is some safe, rich, secure nation history will go on and on how the godking Obama brought it about.
    ha ha ha

  18. #18
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    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    Mukhtada Al Sadr is probably anxiously licking his lips now...

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  19. #19

    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    OH comon guys.You guys know that the world wont let us have our reward our victory even if we sacraficed 4000 our own men.Especialy if a cowboy from Texas thought of the whole Idea.Either that or they will give all the glory to Obama. But seriousely if the Iraqis want us out were moving out!

  20. #20
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    Default Re: US Troops Leaving Iraqi Cities

    OH comon guys.You guys know that the world wont let us have our reward our victory even if we sacraficed 4000 our own men.Especialy if a cowboy from Texas thought of the whole Idea.Either that or they will give all the glory to Obama. But seriousely if the Iraqis want us out were moving out!
    Petraeus is a New Yorker, not texan. And is the only reason we're making any gains in Iraq. Bush had little to nothing do do with it.
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